Racism in Sports

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I thought this topic was serious enough that it deserved billing in the AoDA. Moderators can move it to the sports forum if they deem otherwise. I tried to be conservative in my title, as it really could be named European Racism in Soccer, but I'm sure other examples apply.

I bring this up because for the third time this year I saw a news telecast on blatant racism at some European soccer events. I want to state before I go any further that I'm not saying that there are no racists in America, nor am I implying that the majority of Europeans are racist.

I was completely shocked however, to see to what extent some Europeans go to in order to show their displeasure over black athletes. I saw everything from monkey calls to throwing bananas on the soccer field at the black athlete. I'm not saying that most Europeans think this is OK, but it is shocking to see something like that happening, as such a thing is completely and utterly taboo in the U.S. Hell, most sports in the U.S. are dominated by black athletes (with the exception of ice hockey), so if you were going to deride black athletes, you couldn't even watch most sporting events.

The more interesting question here is why? I certainly can't speak for Europe, so this is only my personal opinion of the matter. The most obvious thing to me is that there was no social upheaval regarding segregation and social rights for blacks in Europe like there was in America during the 1960s. I'm not saying this to demonize Europe. It's just that most minority groups in Europe come from the Middle East. The black population in Europe then, as now, is small compared to that in the U.S. (Keep in mind that the reason 1/4 of all Americans are black is in no small part due to our history in slavery, so it's not like our hands are entirely clean in terms of a racist background.)

When a minority group is so small it can be overlooked, it will be ignored more often than not. Something like Martin Luther King Jr.'s million man march (yes, there were white participants but the crowd was mostly black) would simply not be possible in most European communities, because even major cities in Europe don't have black populations numbering in the millions like many American cities. I'm not sure there are many European cities that even have black populations that would measure in the hundreds of thousands.

The other thing I have a problem with, is while I can accept that these actions are not reflective of the majority, it's not like it's a small, negligible group of people acting this way. In a stadium with 100,000 people, you can't hear if a few hundred people are making monkey calls every time a black player touches the soccer ball. In order for a monkey call to be discernable above the noise of the stadium, thousands of people have to be participating in the monkey call.

Now, a few thousand out of a hundred thousand is still far from a majority, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's a few thousand more than you'd ever hear at a American sporting event. It's taboo in the U.S., it's not taboo in Europe. For how progressive I usually find many aspects of European culture, it is sad to see many Europeans so far behind in this aspect of modern society.

I also ask if there are any Europeans old enough to remember on this board - what was Europe's reaction to the conflicts between races going on in the U.S. in the 1960s?

 

@Aldeth
It's difficult to respond to this thread without wanting to slap you for so broadly painting a group with a single brush stroke, and giving the impression that Europe was somehow apart from or behind any civil rights developments in the past century.

So could you perhaps say which events and where you heard of the racist chants.

Things certainly are different between the UK and the US.

But i'd hardly say it was the epidemic that you paint it. Racist chanting at football matches was made illegal in 1991 in Britain. Obvsiouly there is still some culture of racism as many footballers have joined the 'Show Racism the Red Card' movement but its nowhere near the levels it once was.

That last time i saw on tv and heard racist chanting was in december a year or two back in an England vs. Spain matchup. Which resulted in Fifa has fining the Spanish Football Federation £44,750.

I'm presuming racism in football has come to the foreground again in anticpation of the world cup and the potential problems that might come from right-wing racist groups in Germany?

 

*sigh* I specifically said I didn't think that all or even the majority of Europeans felt this way. And I never singled out the UK, so I don't understand why you thought I was referring specifically to you or your country.

If you want specific articles, do a google search on racism and soccer and watch the hits roll in. I found several on my search, although none cover the specific incident of banana throwing I referred to - as I said that was on a newscast. You'll be happy to know that none of them concern the UK specifically.

Evidently the people of France , Romania, and Germany see this as a potential problem, due to specific issues in the past. Perhaps it isn't an epidemic, but you're pretending that it doesn't even exist to any noticable degree. Clearly hearing monkey calls on the television and seeing bananas come flying from the stands at black players is compelling evidence. Were the monkey calls voice overs and were the bananas digitally added to the footage?

 

I saw the HBO special on this and it was horrifying. To see 100K+ people doing monkey chants and throwing bananas at black players was disgusting. I can honestly say that would never happen in the United States. Not that we are any better, but the backlash would be swift and furious.

 

I see that type of racism every now and then.

I'll much, much rather take that than the USA model, which seems to be advertised as "proper".

I've also seen the same thing about possibly any difference. Hometown, primary language, hair style, political outlook, music taste...

 

It's a small minority of idiotic individuals who get severely punished if caught.

Next.

 

I don't get it. What's "proper" about racism in the U.S.?

I'm sure that's it. Just like it was a small minority of people in the U.S. who didn't like Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier in baseball back in the 1950s. I'm sure the last stragglers will come along eventually. Just like they did in the U.S. 50 some years ago.

 

Oh, put the rod away, Aldeth .

 

What do you mean? I assume by the smiley face that there was sarcasm intended, but I don't get the rod reference. And I was being sincere. Most people readily accept people of different races, but there are some who won't, but through time their number will be fewer and fewer until the problem goes away. JUST LIKE IT HAPPENED HERE.

EDIT: And to be fair, I must say, that in the report I saw, it specifically referred to racial events in France (including a coach), Spain, and Germany. There were other countries involved as well, but the UK was noteworthy in that there were no incidents cited from there. So I guess the Brits may have the clamps down on this better than their European neighbors.

 

To fully grasp the underlying foundations behind racial and cultural views in Europe would require complex analysis of the history of the continent. All I would say is that this makes it very different from the USA. Not right or wrong or better or worse but very very very different. Remember that there are effectively still wars being fought in Europe which are for all intents and purposes, racial conflicts.

 

It seemed to me like you were fishing for bites, old boy. Effectively, the post before my reply was 'Europe is 50 years behind the US' which is obviously not the case. Especially on the side of racism. I hear the word 'nigger' bandied about in America all the time. In England, you will lose your job and get a big fine and other repercusions for even using the word.

I can only speak for Britain when I say that racism isn't rife here. Politcal correctness rules the roost here. Any racism is abhorred, big style. I have noticed a bit of racism in Italy and Spain (the last time England played in Spain, that was bad for racist chanting). But I hardly consider it a widespread problem. A collection of ignorant idiots chant racism songs and make monkey noises, but it is very much a minority. The only problem there is that the powers at be aren't as harsh on it there. Anyone caught practicing racism here will never step into that stadium again.

 

Oh, re-reading it, I see why you would have thought that - it wasn't my intent. I was just saying that the U.S. was going through pretty much the exact same thing when we first had black athletes participating in our sporting events. I certainly wasn't saying that Europe is two generations behind the U.S. in terms of soical progress. (One generation tops! )

I think any time we see any type of large social change, there will be some resistance to it. The same thing is happening in the U.S. today as regards gay marriage. Most people readily accept change, but there will always be some who resist it. As it becomes more and more widespread in the culture though, those resisting grow fewer and fewer in number. While it is probably impossible to eliminate racism (or any other social problem) completely, I think that eventually their numbers are so small that they wouldn't even dare voicing their opinions in a public area like a sports arena.

 

@Barmy Army
I agree its not rife, but it is on the rise.

While we might not have many vocal or obvious outlets of racism (i.e. KKK) but:
i) There is still a staggering level of institutional racism in the police and armed forces.
ii) Political parties are becoming more reliant on 'fear of the other' to win votes. Conservatives blaming everything on immigrants, UKIP wanting to severe all ties with europe and BNP wanting to 'send people home'
iii) Media painting the insitgators of most crimes as foreign nationals or urban (black & asian) youths.

...ok these problems exist for minorities in most countries, america included but until these things are stamped out it will only get worse.

Not to have a dig but the way you talk about Political Correctness with contempt is part of that problem.

 

Not in my country it isn't. I don't believe it will continue to grow anywhere else either.

No there isn't.

No they're not. The only political parties that say anything remotely racist are the BNP and the UKIP, neither of which will ever get a big enough following to worry about.

Since when? Do you spend your days reading the Daily Star and the Sport? Read a proper paper, instead of rags. Or at least don't take what they feed you seriously. Buying them for the boobs on page 3 is acceptable though.

I didn't speak about anything with contempt. Except racism. And maybe Aldeth. But he's my little chicken, he'll forgive me.

 

@Barmy Army

If i read those 'rags', i wouldn't be criticising them i'd be preaching their dumbass views.

Clearly you weren't awake during the last general election.

...or for the past few decades.

 

I'm willing to support racism just to get rid of political correctness.

And if a black guy can call a black guy a nigger, I should have that right too.

 

In the US that word has such a heavy attachment to Jim Crow and the Klan, for a white person to use the word draws connection to being a second class citizen. When a black person calls another black person that name it dulls the hurtful intent of the word.

Anyway American sports are still loaded with racism (specifically basketball with 85-90% of the league being colored and roughly 85-90% of the fan base being white). Larry Bird vs. Magic Johnson, white quarterbacks vs. black quarterbacks, Steve Nash and Dirk Nowtiski as the Great White Hopes of basketball, the, for lack of better words, image surrounding the Detroit Pistons. Because of the 1950s and 1960s we've gotten much better at hiding the less exceptable or direct forms for racism in favor of racism that is more easily disguised.

 

Heh, not that you should exercise that right any time soon. And besides, I've always perceived the used of "nigger" as a more intimate term, i.e. strangers, even if they are black, don't use that word with each other.

Also, I'm curious as to why "sh--" and "fu--" are banned on this forum, but "nigger" is not.

 

My experience tells me that the vast majority of the people who are singing racist chants during a football/basketball/whatever game are not real racists, they just see it as a way (stupid of course) to anger the black players of the other team and make them lose their temper and their concentration. I can remember many incidents where the same people, who were singing racist chants for the black players of the opposite team, were praising the black players of their team during the same game.

 

To quote a comedian whose name I cannot remember...
"The problem with that is that white people have not always used it the right way."

EDIT:
Also, what BOC describes is somewhat common, especially with the more juvenile fans. Indeed, there are many colleges that start their games with announcements that any racist, sexist, derogatory, etc. comments will be sufficient reason for expulsion from the game.

[ June 05, 2006, 22:10: Message edited by: Felinoid ]