Redemption Party

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OK, new party idea. I want to take along both Sarevok and Viconia, and convert both of them to good. That may prove easier said than done for me, as I have never successfully turned either of them good. Sarevok shouldn't be a problem now that Fel has a guide up, and we'll see with Viconia.

Some questions here - does your PC have to be good to make either Sarevok or Viconia change to good alignment? Will neutral work?

Do you have to romance Viconia to convert her, and if so, does having the multiple romance mod screw this up?

If you have more than one romance active in the party, who does Bohdi take? Both?

Since I'm planning on picking up Sarevok in ToB, it essentially limits me to 5 members in my original party. I'm planning on playing a half-elven fighter-thief (I'd pick elf, but I don't think Viconia will romance elves, of course I think the multiple romance also allows you to romance anyone, regardless of race, so maybe that doesn't matter).

My game plan here is to take along Viconia, Jaheira and Imoen. That basically means I'm limited to 4 characters prior to Spellhold, as I refuse to "waste" XPs on characters that won't be staying with the party.

Which means I have one opening to fill, and I'm not sure who fits in there. Under the present constitution, I'm tanking with my PC and Jaheira - a doable but not ideal scenario. Cleric wise I'm fine - Viconia is all the cleric I need, and Jaheira even provides the remaining druid spell options. My PC is all the theif I need.

So that leaves me with really two options: I either need a second mage, or I need another tank. Another tank will take some heat off my PC and Jaheira, neither of which are ideal tanks, but that would mean I have to forego the use of any mage in the party prior to Spellhold. So my best tank options would be Keldorn, Korgan or Minsc, and my mage options would be Edwin or Nalia (Jan is pointless as my PC is part thief). Suggestions?

Now, Korgan and Edwin don't really fit into the redemption motif, but would work for the party, as I will have to keep my rep under 18 anyway with Viconia coming along. Hmmm... That 4 slot is going to be critical as I'm going with a 4 person party prior to Spellhold, and a bad choice could make things difficult indeed.

 

IIRC, the PC doesn't have to be "good", they just have to choose the "good" dialogues. You do have to be romancing Viconia to get her to change, though.

You could always try the "rush to Spellhold", and only do the quests that you can manage without a mage (de'Arnise Keep, Trademeet, Umar Hills) to get enough gold for Bodhi/Aran. After you reach Spellhold and pick up Imoen, your mage worries are over.

Despite this, of the options you've listed, I'd pick Nalia - you can always ditch her later, and she gives you some decent magical artillery and support casting. If you really need a tank, I'd go for Minsc, since he can lay the smack down with the best of them and can sneak decently well. I wouldn't go for Keldorn, despite his powerful anti-magic abilities, because he's a filthy racist.

 

The redemption motif would make taking Keldorn problematic -- in keeping with roleplaying, forgiveness would be the direction to go. Allowing him to stay to fix his family problems seems more in line with this type of game. I've always thought the sentiment about Keldorn being a racist was unjust -- after all, he will turn on you if you fight Drizzt.

Nalia would certainly go with the redemption aspect (saving her home and regaining her family honor). As would Mazzy -- she has basically failed, her own lover was turned against her to mock her situation (department of redundancy department strikes again). Rescuing Mazzy and allowing her to become a weapon against evil fits the motif. Otherwise, I'd choose Minsc as he has great conversations with the characters you've chosen -- buttkicking for goodness could be the battlecry for redemption....

Why not a half-orc? If your F/T is going to be a tank, 19 in strength and constitution will certainly help (which the half-elf may already have if imported from BG1). A half-orc certainly fits the redemption mold, guilt about his heritage (both sides) could further his resolve to help Viconia and Sarevok.

I've never been able to redeem Sarevok, good luck.

Edit: Another idea -- Solaufein.

[ February 22, 2006, 00:17: Message edited by: T2Bruno ]

 

yes solaufein is your answer, i have used him as a tank w/ right equipment and he will give you that extra mage. but bohdi will also take him and that s*cks cause he's tough.

 

The first time I played ToB all the way to the end I was able to convert both Viconia and Sarevok, though Sarevok took some time. Though my PC was an Undead Hunter and a relentless goody two-shoes I didn't allow my rep to exceed 18 until very late in the game. (There were a few things that tarnished my rep slightly, though I don't recall what those were--I don't think I purposely lowered my rep to keep the baddies in the party. I think I might've punched out a peasant somewhere along the line.)

I'm almost positive you need to romance Viconia to change her from neutral evil to chaotic neutral. As for Sarevok, just play through ToB verrrry slowly as it takes many dialogues for him to change his tune.

I believe I finished ToB with a party of:
1. PC (Undead hunter)
2. Jaheira
3. Viconia
4. Nalia
5. Imoen (replaced Yoshimo)
6. Sarevok (replaced Minsc)

 

I don't have time (or patience) right now to read everything to see what I'd be duplicating, so I'll just answer all questions straight out.

Yes, you need to romance Viconia to convert her. Some random schmuck she's following (even if s/he is a Bhaalspawn) just isn't going to cut it. I have a guide for the romance too BTW, including how to change her.

I don't know what Bodhi does with multiple romances.

Go ahead and pick an elf (or half-orc) if you want to do multiple romances, since you're already 'cheating' anyway. Just make sure to install that portion of EoU (romance regardless of race or gender) in addition to multiple romances; they are separate.

How can you have a party without Minsc or Jan!?! Take at least one of them!

EDIT:
Actually, Sola fits in pretty nicely, but be prepared for some bad fights if you take him.

 

Yeah, I've taken along Sola before - and I'm not exactly thrilled at going through the eclipse crew again. So at this point, I've pretty much narrowed down my options to Nalia or Minsc. I'm leaning towards Minsc, and rushing to Spellhold for a few reasons:

I don't have any true fighters in the party. Viconia is a sub-par tank to say the least, and right now she is my only option for using FotA. I can see Minsc using Flails. I have obsolutely no one in the party that will be able to use traditional fighter weapons except my PC, which I suppose I could do, and then switch to a thief weapon only for backstabbing purposes. Still, without someone like Minsc, my weapon choices are going to be extremely limited.

This also means I'm going to rush to Spellhold. Looking at my options, it seems like the most logical choice would be Trademeet. I get weapons for Jaheira,, and gobs of money to make a few other purchases before I leave. I could of course also do the slavers if I want Lilicor for Minsc.

 

I'd go with Kundane and Celestial Fury/Flail of Ages for your PC (later on the Scarlet Ninja-to in place of Kundane), Belm and Gnasher/Blackblood for Jaheira. Viconia can have the Mauler's Arm. You oughtn't need a third fighter. You'd have to do the slaver compound, the planar prison, the De'Arnise Keep and Trademeet.

 

Way too much. The idea in rushing is to get there fast. That's another reason to NOT take Nalia actually, as it would require me to do the D'Arnise Keep prior to leaving, although I may want to do that anyway.

Alright, so if I do take Nalia, I guess I'd have to do the D'Arnise Keep and Trademeet (just too much good stuff at both locations to not do it).

If I take Minsc, I still feel like I should do Trademeet, but I may forego the D'Arnise Keep in favor of the Slaver Compound. Of course, Minsc could use the FoA if needs be (after he gets at least one proficiency point anyway) so maybe I don't need to do the Slaver Compound, as the only thing there is Lilicor, and while that's a good weapon early on, the FotA isn't that much harder to acquire. Hmmm ... that complicates matters. I'm now leaning towards doing the keep and Trademeet anyway, so I'm no closer to a solution.

 

Why do you want to rush to Spellhold? If your PC has crap gear, then trying to speedrun your way through chapters three to five will only make things more difficult. I think you're inventing problems for yourself.

Also I meant the slaver compound in the temple district where you get Celestial Fury, not the one in the slums.

 

Because right now he's only got four people and no arcane. Besides, if you're going to have Imoen permanently, you rush to Spellhold. (What kind of monster are you that you wouldn't rush to save your dear sister? ) I'm not sure why Aldeth wants to do it quite this fast, since you can keep levels low enough (for Imoen comparison) before you get there doing more than he's planning, but...meh.

 

That's what I mean. If you head over to Spellhold at level 12, you can still pick Imoen up as a level 13 mage. That gives you plenty of time to equip your PC properly. You should be able to finish the aforementioned areas with divine and no arcane, but if not then you can always pick up either Edwin or Nalia as a temporary solution.

 

I believe Aldeth's already mentioned he doesn't want any "temporary" NPCs. But I suppose I should let him speak for himself in this instance...

 

Basically what Fel has explained is what I mean. If you're taking along Imoen permanently, then you don't want to do everything you can do in Chapter 2 before leaving for Spellhold. In fact, you want to do as little as possible to maximize her XPs. Also, the only way I would take Nalia or Edwin is if I do in fact want to keep them.

Actually, I think I've come up with a better solution, one that works well for Imoen too. I can do as many quests as I'd like, I just won't FINISH the quests. The bulk of experience points you get is quest experience, when you get 20,000 XP, 30,000XP, 40,000 XP or whatever, per character. I can simply avoid talking to the final character that ends the quest until Chapter 6, saving the experience for Imoen. This allows me to do more without Imoen falling horrificly behind. I don't think there's any time limit on any quests, so that shouldn't be a problem either. For example, if I go through the D'Arnise Keep to get the FotA, I can simply avoid talking to Nalia on the way out, right? There's no time limit on how long after you start a quest before you complete it.

So, I guess it makes more sense to look at what major quests will not benefit me in any meaningful way, since it won't give me any equipment that is essential. And it also makes sense that I decide on weapons for my characters ahead of time too.

PC - Celestial Fury/Kundane
Jaheira - Pitchwife (Item Upgrade Mod)/Belm
Minsc - FotA, Crom Faeyr
Viconia - I don't even know if I want her to melee - perhaps just the sling of Everard or the Sling of Seeking with a strength enhancing Item. If I do melee, IMoD/Mauler's Arm
Imoen - primarily Firetooth - SotM when needed
Sarevok - I'll use the Item Upgrade Mod to canibalize Carsomyr, or improve Lilicor. Eventually, he'll use the Ravager.

So, let's see - that means I have to do Trademeet, the D'Arnise Keep, and the Playhouse. I'll probably do the slaver quest to get Celestial Fury, but I'll probably avoid the Twisted Rune until my return. Like I said, Imoen's primary weapon once we get to Ust'Natha will be Firetooth, so she doesn't absolutely NEED the SotM.

This looks pretty efficient. Since there's no way I can complete Crom Faeyr until after I return in Chapter 6 anyway, there's no reason for me to get the other parts of it in advance of going to Spellhold. The only things I need to make Pitchwife are all available in Trademeet. Regardless of what path I take with Viconia, the only items I need for her are either purchased or found in the core story line in Chapter 3.

As for completing quests, I'll avoid talking to Nalia. In Trademeet, I DO have to talk to the woman (forget her name - something like Busya?) to get the reward for getting rid of the genies (otherwise I can't purchase Blackblood), but I DON'T need to talk to Lord Coprith for clearing the Druid Grove. Unfortunately, I think there's no avoiding the XPs for the Playhouse, as you have to talk to Raelis to leave the Prison. I'll probably pick one or two miniquests as well - I'll do the Harper Hold (although I can avoid the last conversation with Xzar until I return), and I'll probably take out Pebblecrusher and his mates for the full plate mail and cloak of non-detection.

EDIT: I may as well take Yoshimo right before I leave for Spellhold to get his heart too. The amount of XPs I'll lose in Brynlawn by dividing it up with Yoshimo is much less than the 200,000 XP you get for his heart.

[ February 23, 2006, 14:19: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

This could work. But it's a bit non-RP-ish. Does Nalia accost you when you leave the keep? I thought she did, but I might just be remembering a time when she was in my party.

If you can mete out your quest experience carefully so that you don't get over 400,000 before you grab Imoen in Spellhold, then you're fine. If not, it's still not too big a deal.

 

I *think* Nalia only talks to you immediately upon leaving the keep if she's in your party. Otherwise, I think you have to walk down to the little fort thing they have set up and talk to her for the quest experience. Normally, I don't have Nalia in my party, and I seem to remember it occuring this way. Could be wrong though.

 

Correct. I never have Nalia, and I always have to walk down to the fort to blow her off or steal the keep.