Religion

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It seemed that the religion question in a previous thread was clouding up the real reason for that thread, so I decided to take this to the next level. I do not mean to push religion on anyone, but there seemed to be plenty of open-minded pursuit of this topic, so I'm gonna give it a try:

God is not a crutch. God is the entire ambulance. Perhaps we see him as a distant entity, or an unworthy deity when we are upset...but why? Are we mad at God for mistakes we make? Are we mad because things weren't "easy enough"? Every sports player I know speaks about the challenge of the game. Or something similar. Challenge challenge challenge. But we turn around and yell and scream when life gets tough.

Another board member said that God doesn't make life hard for the wicked. The Bible states that "They have their reward"...in other words, they're not going to get invited to the party after the prom. But that doesn't mean that happy people are going to burn. According to the Bible, war is the punishment for sins. Perhaps this is so for people too? Granted, not all miserable people are going to Hell, because the Bible states that these people are holy.

I could sit here and quote ancient literature all day, but I hope that I have made myself clear. This is not a strictly Christian thread either, share your thoughts.

 

Why do you think there is a god? Because your parents taught you so? Because you saw it on TV? Because you read it in books?

 

Sapiry1, just for the record, I completely agree. I don't really wnat to debate religion with all of you. I've been doing it with my friends for over ten years. I have my opinion and they have theirs. No one will ever 'logically' convince anyone to believe in God. The whole issue is to filled with emotion. Either you believe or you don't. Any the only one who can change your mind is you. The evidence of God is all around us but if you don't open your eyes you will never see it. That's all I have to say on this issue.

[This message has been edited by Voltric (edited February 22, 2001).]

 

Some people never learn. But they should.

[This message has been edited by Taluntain (edited February 22, 2001).]

 

Here is my bigger reasons for believing in God.

When I was about 9 my dad turned into an alcoholic. He use to really scare us sometimes, me, my sister, and my mom.

One day we were going down to Colorado Springs, Colorado to sell some tools at a flea market. We were coming home and my dad decided to stop at Woodland Park to get some alcohol with his buddy. My mom refused to wait, so she took us kids and left.

We had come into a rather large dip in the road, with a hill on each side of us. The snow was almost blinding with the sun hitting it and my mom couldn't see out of her window because it was partially muddy.

We pulled over to the side of the road and my sister got out of the four door escort we were driving to put snow on the windshield to clean it off. We were kind of on a steep slope on the side of the road. My mom had the parking brake on and her foot on the actual brake.

My sister was standing in front of the car when she started yelling that my dad was coming at us, and she didn't think that he was going to stop. I was extremely tiny and I had fell asleep in the very back of the car, basically I was in the trunk with a tire and a tv. I had just crawled out of the very back, into the back seat when my dad hit us. He was driving a one ton truck full of tools.

My mom was wearing a seatbelt, I was not. I remember my sister bouncing up over the hood of the car. My mom turned the wheel at just the right moment so that she didn't run completely over my sister. She probably would have died. My mom and I went down the steep incline where we came to a stop int he a little valley.

My sister suffered a broken leg. I had the wind nocked out of me and blacked out for a while. All the windows were shattered, except the one where I was at. I landed on the floor behind the passenger seat. I remeber glass all over my mom, and she was bleeding, but extremely pissed off, and quite concious.

The tv and the tire that I was in the back with desintigrated, the back of the car was setting against the back seat and the back seat had moved closer to the front seat. If I had stayed there for one more second (and that is not exagerating) I would have been killed.

What I don't understand was how my own father, who was a good 15 minutes behind us, managed to hit, and almost kill his entire family? How did we all survive, with barely a scratch on us, except for my sisters broken leg. Which by the way, mended just fine. By right, and the way the accident happened, we should have all been dead.

My dad quite drinking that very day. For 10 years he wouldn't touch a drink. Now, on speacial occasions he has one or two, but two is his limit.

I honestly believe, it was an act of God. This event changed my families life, for the better. And you must wonder, how something so good, could have come out of something so bad.

 

Act of God...?
I prefer to say that your Dad finally got his common sense.

 

Shura, we all have our own opinions, the point that Satiana makes is that something makes us do the things we do and act the way we act. I enjoyed your story BTW Satiana. As for murder and genital mutilation, every religion has it's short falls and if we look hard enough we could discredit all religions. These points overshadow the good found in most religion.

Rakanishu - What sort of questions are those? How do we learn about anything in life? If we didn't learn from example we would be just another animal on this earth that is driven by pure instinct (and we wouldn't be conversing on these boards for that matter).



[This message has been edited by Lord Moeken (edited February 22, 2001).]

 

Maybe you would see it that way Shura, but what you don't know is all the horrible things that happened up to that point that should have made him change his point of view. You see, my sister was the most important thing in my dad's life, and he himself almost killed her. It took that specific act to literally scaring him into be straight again.

I have had quite a few events in my life that have lead me to believe that God existed. Most of them were quite scarry, like the story I wrote previously, but a few were wonderful as well. It wasn't anything that anybody said to me, or tried to teach me, and it definetly was not anything that I watched on tv.

As a matter of fact, I had some really bad experiences as a child while being forced to get involved with the church. I am not a huge fan of going to church. I feel closer to God when I am out in the country where man has not defiled the earth yet, than I do in a church.

No one can convince you to believe in God, it has to be something that happens to you personaly. I have noticed during my 25yrs of being on this earth, that the times that I have actually been close to God were the times I was the happiest.

I don't believe in any one particular religion either. I believe that the best relationship that you can have with God, is the one you choose to have. The way that fits you the best. I don't believe there is one particular way to pray, or any of that crap either. I don't believe that if you have caffine or get drunk off you butt, that you are not a believer of God.

Simply put, through my experiences and what I know in my own heart to be true, is what I go by.

 

You seem rather hostile to this issue, Rak.

You see, the point is, that whether we read it in a book or are taught or see it with our own eyes, it shouldn't matter. Religion, and most laws, are based on the distinct desire to do good. Whether one believes in God or not, we should all strive to do the best that we can as a whole. By rejecting God, you are not rejecting that belief, as it is so firmly pressed into the minds of all people that it is impossible to obliterate. Murderers are punished, as are thieves and the like. I remember seeing a poster on my Pre-K school wall, "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you." This is a public school, mind. Those words cam right out of Christ's mouth as is recorded in the Bible.

Here's another kick in the can, even if one rejects the existence of God, one cannot reject the existence of Christ. Christ is not simply a religious figure, he is a historical figure and even science recognizes him. Rejecting his existence would be rejecting all of history.

How much of what you know did you figure out for yourself? Math? Nope, you were taught how to read. Science? Uh-uh. How to walk? Wrong again! Psychologists have proved that all manner of excessive locomotion is learned by observation. Think on that.

 

This is actually a hopeless topic. People who have "seen the light" are very unlikely to accept any "logical" or scientific explanation. Why should they, after all, once they have found "Him" (Her,It,Whatever) ?

Nor will the convinced atheist get persuaded to believe in some sort of Divine Power, till it slaps them in the face. Untill that happens however, there's no way on Earth you can convince me there's some sort of God as is described in the Bible, not even the existence of some sort of Divine Power.

Sorry, although I don't know why I'm apologizing

 

Well, to each there own, or whatever.

Signing off topic.

 

I wouldn't say that this topic is hopeless. Being a fence sitter, I guess I enjoy any sort of religious debate, I think it makes for some very interesting conversation. It's sort of funny the way so many people try to just avoid the topic, although I can sort of understand why they do.
I agree with you Lord Bane that you will never convince the opposite end of the spectrum to make some sort of miraculous conversion to the other side, however there are many people who fall in the middle and just like to hear what other people have to say.

When I look at some stories in the bible (Noah's Ark, Tower of Bable, Adam and Eve) I have a hard time believing them.

Then look at the theories of natural selection and evolution. I think humans are an exception to this rule. Why are we so smart? Why are our brains so big when we don't even use most of it? Hmmm, divine intervention? I don't know, but I can't inore the possibility.

 

Hey, I didn't give any numbers. The 'fact' is that much of how the brain actually works isn't understood or what the function of the various areas are.
My original point was that natural selection should never have made us this smart. Unless of course we require all of this intelligence to protect ourselves from each other.

 

Fact: We only use 10% of our brain at any one moment. But we use all its capabilities except capacity.

Fact: Our brains have the capacity to hold thousands of years of memories. So why such a short life-span?

I'll leave it at that, something to think about. Make what you will of it.

"My soul is prepared. How is yours?"

 

I don't know Recoil Suave, I'm only thirty and I'm starting to forget alot of things. I'm sure fellows like BTA are even worse.

[This message has been edited by Lord Moeken (edited February 23, 2001).]

 

My point exactly, Lord Moeken. The brain has the "capability" of holding that much, but "something" prevents us from using it to the fullest ability. Just a little insight into my beliefs for those of you who read this a little later.

 

Well, we don't necessarily use all of that 10% do we? Anyhow, how do we know that our evolution was steered by divine intervention? Perhaps it was aliens? We have just as much a reason to believe either one if we haven't had a certain experiance of our own to convince us one way or another. Perhaps it is possible for us to use the full extent of our brain, but the necessity has not been found? We get along fine with our brains functioning as they do don't we? I think that if we could learn to use the full capacity of our brain, the things we could do as a species would be vitually unlimited.

 

Indeed.

Well, I did not start this thread in order to "convert" anyone. I do agree with Lord Bane, and reason that I agree with it is...I'M IRISH AND CATHOLIC BWAHAHAHA!!! Anyway, we all know how stubborn Irish blood can make a person.

One of the reasons that I started this thread is that I wanted to hear others' beliefs. Yeah, we have heard from the Christians, the Atheists, and the Agnostics...but are there any Hindu believers, or Buddhists here? If so, I would like to read about your religion, as my upbringing and education have thus far proved culturally lacking.