Religion

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Do people take it too seriously?

Atheists attacked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuws7GUbfHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzU

Jesus Camp

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486358/ Not very common, but scary that it can exist. After watching JC, I couldn't believe the abuse the children received from their parents and Pastor Becky. 1 scene had a little boy crying because he said he didn't believe everything in the Bible and felt guilty.

Teaching Creationism in schools

According to a 2006 Gallup poll,[27] about 46% of Americans believe in strict creationism (taken from wikipedia I cannot find any figures for Europe but I have read recently that some English schools are also teaching Creationism.

Chick.com and similar- full of hate, lies and intolerance. Some of the anti-Catholic tracts make N.Irish protestants such as Ian Paisley and the Shankill Butcher look mild. Apparently these tracts are bestsellers, though they have never been sold in any bookshop that I have ever visited

20 years ago, homosexuality, divorce and birth control were banned in the Republic of Ireland, but some people want to bring this back. Abortion is illegal because of the religious right.

 

In the second athiest video they're completely missing the point of the issue that athiests or even agnostics have with prayer in schools. It isn't the fact that people pray in schools, they're fine and dandy with it as long as their children aren't forced to pray also. They're asking for religion to not be imposed upon their children.

As far as I know most athiests are happy for people to worship whatever relgion they please. Go ahead, it's your right to do so, but don't you dare expect me to worship it also or demand that I partake in your worship.

In New Zealand I attended a Christian private school, they didn't teach Creationisim in any class other than religious studies (note, not Bible studies, but religious studies where we studied religions, their beliefs and theology). It's also a country where despite the fact that the national anthum has "God defend (our freeland)/(New Zealand)" athiests don't mind a bit. We'd be happy for any help we can get defending our country and asking something whose existance is disputed for assistance can't hurt.

 

I'm not going to state myself as an atheist. Not as an agnostician either. I'm more of a 'Idon'tgiveadamnist'. Sure, a lot of religious questions are interesting and a lot of wisdom can be found from religious texts. That being said religious people can pray and attend to their worships as much as they want as long as they don't try to convert me into anything.

Now if there's anything I get really worked up is these missionary types that impose their beliefs on other people. Sure I could get into similar way of thinking again, but I sure as hell don't want to. Because of these religious people who try to beat you up into faith. They give the whole religion business a bad name.

Some religious people should seriously rethink their marketing strategy.

 

Many 'Christian' countries are against abortion, but think nothing of supporting wars which kill many thousands of children, like the Iraqi sanctions that prevented water treatment plants from being repaired.

 

I'm Christian (Catholic) and I don't like imposition of beliefs. I believe in free will. God didn't give humans free will for us to force Him on them. I believe a forced prayer is an offence to God.

We're talking about children and children get brought up in the religion of their parents, so they may be expected to go to church even if they prefer to watch cartoons (and I'd expect that of my children, had I any), but I don't believe in physical coercion. Perhaps a slap for blasphemy if you'd slap for insulting mum or dad. Though I'm personally not a fan of slapping children. In fact, I'd rather neither slap nor raise my voice.

It's good when I hear from atheists who don't mind Christians practicing their faith in public or in private nearby. As for me, I talk about my faith and I pray for people to convert, but I never force anyone or even pressure him or her. If it is to come, it must come from a free, willing and decided heart. And mind, probably.

As for abortion, I'm against. Just because someone says the fact it has a separate DNA and blood group and is en route to becoming a fully fledged human is not enough to prevent killing it, doesn't mean I'm going to agree it's okay and just a religious tolerance matter.

Divorce, also. There must be an option to avoid living with an abusive spouse, as well as danger to oneself and the children. There must also be an option to undo marriages by force, under the influence of substances, between too close relatives, by trickery etc. However, I don't believe in second chances with another person just because something didn't work out.

Birth control? Call me what you will, but it creates artificial bariers between spouses (okay, I know for you they don't have to be married...). It's not like I couldn't marry and then make love with a person taking pills, but I would never use any contraception myself. I generally believe that wide access to contraception promotes irresponsibility in sexual matters.

And no, I don't think it's only for children. Uniting is as important as having children. And yes, pleasure is a part of it. I don't believe in a quick "act" for procreation only. It's supposed to bring pleasure to both the man and the woman, so yes, I'm not one of those people who say foreplay is evil, orgasm is not needed and it's all for kids. No. But I just don't like the idea of kids being cut out of it. Of course, what I like or don't like isn't important here, but I believe the way it influences the bonds between people is quite material, so it's not really just a private matter.

[ February 15, 2007, 21:23: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

Do people take religion too seriously? Yes, but then we take a lot of things too seriously.

I don't believe anyone should be forced to believe in anything. One's life should be lived as an example. When people have children they are responsible for those children; to feed, clothe, house and educate them. Education includes teaching morality and religious beliefs. At some point children will grow up and have the right to make their own choices.

I am not my brother's keeper but I am responsible for how I treat other people. If I refuse them rights then I can be refused rights. Simple.

 

I think religion is good and some of my friends have become better people after becoming religious, but some people become fanatics and distort the meanings of their religion.

Seriously do they actually believe that Jesus wants them to bomb poor countries, or to buy cheap goods at the expense of 3rd world children's health and dignity?

 

Cúchulainn, the trick is to keep respecting the other man even if he disagrees with you - and even if he isn't respecting you at the moment. What absolute is there is because it's God (well, God is absolute) or because God says, not because I say. It's a tough lesson to learn and I've been failing there, which I sorely regret. Sometimes you focus so much on the content that you forget about the form and you hurt other people's feelings - which is wrong and against the religion you have, surely against it. I've recently hurt one of the closest persons to me like this and I can't get over the regret.

Jesus didn't come with bombs, He came with love. Neither did He come with cruel words or merciless attitudes, even if what He said was difficult to people. Most of all, He came with respect and care for the other man. Something so easy to forget. And so sadly.

 

I see hatred of atheists in the same light as homophobia, i.e. deep, deep down in the darkest corners of their hearts, theists have a tiny little voice of doubt and someone who is "out of the closet" as an atheist represents what those theists fear most: the little atheist that lives in them.

 

I think that's more viable than the homophobia theory making all of us either in the closet or out of the closet gays, or gay-friendly heteros. It's probably often a question of not conforming. Whoever doesn't conform undermines the system and so on and so forth. Same what you get for being a Catholic in the modern world. To me as a Catholic, an atheist is not an enemy, and definitely not the enemy, but more of a remainder that faith is also a gift - a gift of grace, and that there's a lot to work on in my own faith. Plus, a person to pray for, so that he or she finds his connection to God as well. Atheists are meant to be loved, not hated, and they need all the love they can get. Faith being a gift, it's hard to hate someone for being given less. It's also quite strange to hate what God loves and God loves even those who don't believe in Him (or actively believe in His non-existence).

 

I suspect that it would be quite easy to hate those that your God believes have done something so terrible that they need to be tortured for all eternity...

That's funny - I thought he came with the sword?

 

Nope. Who fights by the sword, dies by the sword.

(John 18, 10)

(Luke 22, 49)

(Matthew 26, 51)

Clearly, no need for swords.

 

Of course.
Matthew 10,34

 

I think that is true - and I also think it works in reverse as well. As an agnostic, I am grappling with that problem even now. My wife and I were both born Catholic, but neither of us are presently practicing. However, we have a baby on the way. One question that we have yet to answer is: Do we want to get the baby baptised?

In one sense, it seems hypocritical to do so - I don't think I'm going to start attending Mass again on a regular basis, and yet, if my child one day decides to practice Catholicism it will get him/her off on the right start. Of course, it would not end with baptism. If I get the child baptised, will I send him/her to Catechism to receive communion? What about confirmation? It seems it has to be all the way or not at all - a difficult choice.

 

There is no need for you to decide. A priest can sprinkle some water on him/her if he comes to ask it later on. Alternatively, you could just give him/her a good shower.

But yes; it's slightly hypocritical to say you are an atheist while still participating to religious rituals.

It's sad to see that religions too often turn against non-religious people and/or each other. Once of the reasons no law or government institute should promote them for any reason. They are more like free-time entertainment anyway.

 

I am not an atheist - I'm an agnostic. If you want to get really specific, I'd label myself as a strong agnostic. In other words, not only do I not know if God exists or not, I think it is impossible for anyone to know for sure, one way or the other, whether or not God exists.

As such, I view going to some type of religious service as hedging my bets. It's like saying, yeah, I may be wasting my time being here, but just in case I'm wrong, God will like me anyway. But then I think, if I go to church with that attitude, and God knows I'm just trying to cover my bets, then I'm failing to do the very thing I set out to do. If God is anything like those who believe present him, he wouldn't fall for such a simple trick.

 

@Darkthrone: The sword there is the word of God. The word of God gives peace, but there will be no peace when you're opposed by every single person in your family because of it. So yes, God's word will set you in variance with your family members, with your spouse, with other close people.

As for the last verse, God comes ahead of mortals. One ought to love his Creator more than fellow creations such as even family members. This means the relationship with God comes first.

Note that the passage doesn't deal with unbelievers being brought to the sword but rather the followers of Jesus. It's not a command to go and slay infidels, but a foretelling of how much it will cost people to accept the word of God.

Never been at odds with your friends or relatives for doing the right thing?

 

More fun with Bible quotes:

"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

 

http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Authors/Arlandson/sword2.htm

Consult quotes I gave above on the use made of those two sords the Apostles had the moment Jesus was apprehended.

 

@chevalier:

No offense, but what makes you so sure that your interpretation is correct? That's not to say that it isn't a plausible take on the passage's original intentions, but the Bible is fairly ambiguous, so is it really fair of you to correct Darkthrone's view of it?