Rigged clerics

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aight i've discovered a serious rigging in the cleric domains, i made a npc cleric for my campaign and christ is he rigged, lawful neutral cleric of cuthbert with destruction and strength domain, at level 8 he can pull of over 40 dam in a single hit (not even a critical). he declares a smite attack (+8 dam + 4 to hit) a feat of strenght (+8 strength on 18) with a power attack (+5 dam - 5 hit) and wears rhino armor x2 dam on a charge). thats +16 to hit (focus, +1 sword,+2 charge) and + 21 dam (26 str, smite and power attack) x2 for charging. so hes got +16 attack 2d6 +21 dam x 2. add a critical x3 dam. we got one hella killin cleric.

 

To the best of my knowledge the 'feat of strength' can't be used for an attack. It's for lifting, breaking, etc. But this aside you are REALLY min/maxing your cleric. Using a 18 on strength appears to be a waste. How about Wisdom? It's not like you have two 18s to throu around. In addition more of your damage is based on a magic item and the charge. Moreover, since you are using both your granted powers at once your rather shot for the rest of the day.

What's his dex & Wis? Will he win inititive? If not a hold person or other spell would put him to shame. I hope he's only the muscle and someone else is the brains in the encouter.

 

Any class would be equally or more powerful if minmaxed to their full potential. I've seen 15th level paladins doing an average damage of 250 or so, each round. Your example is really not that impressive

 

250 DAMAGE!? How on earth (or Faerun or Oerth) is that possible? That is insane!

 

I got this at http://66.34.55.203//ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008912

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[This message has been edited by Doofus (edited December 18, 2001).]

 

your as bad as i am crank up the charge and calculate dam for a heavy critical, btw thats me dinkywinkyboy its a temp since i forgot my pass and was at school. reading sword and fist i wanted to make a cavalier i think i calculated off my head 7-9 or more x dam for critical off a lance. you forgot the equipping of rhino hide on the horse. ad nother multiplier

 

Yes, that's the one I was referring to. Pretty impressive in my opinion.
I think he did some similiar smackdowns with the rogue and the monk too. Interesting reads all of them.

 

This may be interesting to read, but by the time you are a 16th level paladin, you are going up against some very powerful foes indeed, ones that could take you out in short order. So this attack will work only if you get to round 2. Assuming a surprise round against anything powerful is stretching it alot, in fact the situation may just be reversed. Additionally, you have assumed help form other members of your party. They can only help you if they are not engaged themselves in a fight to the death. I hope that you always have a DM that will wait for you to prepare your attacks in this way, and monsters who will wait patiently too.

Lets see, Flying in at a speed of 200 feet per round, the Great Red Wyrm makes his first pass toward the unsuspecting adventurers, he flew in low so was not seen by the party until it was too late (200 feet per round is fast). He breathes a cone of fire, targeting the Paladin riding on his horse. The flames engulf the paladin, Reflex save for 1/2 damage at a DC of 40 is not a very likely save (16th level paladin has a +5 base save for reflex). The fiery breath deals 24d10 damage. On his second pass the dragon swoops in and grabs the Paladin lifting him and his mount into the air and taking them for a ride. Any hit by the paladin would not kill the beast as it has on average 660 hit points. As the dragon rises into the air the paladin is becoming aware of his precarious position. Upon reaching a height of 1000 feet, the dragon begins to dive toward a rocky cliff. When the dragon has come within 100 feet of the cliff it lets the paladin and his mount go, launching them into the cliff (40d6 damage, 20d6 for max falling doubled for the dive & release) while it pulls out of the dive and soars away to finish off the rest of the party. On average, these two attack tactics used by a dragon will deal 132 points for the breath (1/2 for a save) and 132 for being propelled into the cliff, no save possible, for a total of 240 points of damage (198 if saved versus the breath, maximum damage for the two combined is 480). The mount of a 16th level paladin, assuming a heavy warhorse, has an average of 75 hit points (Max is 110), and the paladin has an average of 120 hit points (assuming a constitution of 14 or 15, Maximum hit points would be 192). One last note, this dragon has an AC of 41. so hitting it will not be an easy task even for a 16th level paladin.


[This message has been edited by Baldak Oakfist (edited December 19, 2001).]

 

you also forget one fact (im a DM myself) that most 16th level partys wont be attacked by great red wyrms (CR 25). and that also the characters were creating damage possiblities for are PC classes not monsters. but if you really want to see a monster kick out a lot of damage.. i made my personal monster

[Deleted puerile nonsense - BTA]

[This message has been edited by Blackthorne TA (edited December 20, 2001).]

 

No offense Baldak, but Mr. Synonym has a point. Few parties would be attacked by a Great Red Wyrm, unless they do something really stupid, like walking into its cave, or their DM is one of those DM vs. Player types, where they should consider getting a new DM.

The CR16 monsters in the Monster Manual are the Nalfeshnee, Nightwalker, Pit Fiend and Planetar. None of these are capable of dealing even remotely the amount of damage a Great Red Wyrm does, and these are supposed to be moderately difficult for a 16th level party, I believe. Actually, the damage they deal isn't even close to what that paladin does.

 

back at school again, wish i remembered my passwords...

thank you xvart picture guy, thanks for the support, those of you curious as to what BTA - (is that his name?) cut from my post you can ask me personally and ill send it to you directly, its actually quite funny

and voltric looking at the PHB there is no restriction as to when you can usae feat of strength, im almost assumoing it was specificlly designed to help in combat because its stated it last from the point you start for one full round

[This message has been edited by dinkywinkyboy (edited December 20, 2001).]

 

Of course, having the party mage cast an empowered or maximized (or both) Bull's Strength, would also grant a similiar effect, and for a greater amount of time.

Oh, and BTA, would it have been any worse to have sent the monster Inappropriate Synonym against a lvl 16 party than a Great Red Wyrm? Although I haven't seen Synonym's monster, I think not. I'm sure you're right about that monster Synonym posted being purely nonsense, but why didn't Baldak's post get the same treatment? Surely it looked purely nonsensical to me...

[It wasn't "pure" nonsense, it was "puerile"; having to do with giant male genitalia - BTA]

[This message has been edited by Blackthorne TA (edited December 23, 2001).]

 

It may be that most parties of 16th level would not be attacked by a Great Wyrm Red Dragon. My point was simply that you have to make to many assumptions to obtain that kind of damage with your paladin example and that no matter how powerful you think you are, there is always a bigger fish. Furthermore, anyone who would go to the trouble to figure out this grand way of dealing out damage is powergaming, and not roleplaying.

[This message has been edited by Baldak Oakfist (edited December 22, 2001).]

 

Baldak have a point... No matter how hard you try to make the best fighter, there is always a fighter thats more effective in some sort of way
And back to the ass wopping Paladin. Didnt think it was possible to brew a potion of True Strike, I tried that with my Sorcerer and both the DM and Azardu here, said it wasnt possible. Dont remember the reason ut I think it was something about target of the spell or some similar reasons like that.

 

Yes, Kerric, it's target: caster, plus I like to be an ass sometimes

And Baldak, that paladin, along with most of those other smackdown characters, was made for DMs to humiliate the players.

But if a character was to do this, take a moment to look at how the paladin in the example is built. The feats are pretty standard for most paladin characters. And all paladins at that level have the Holy Sword spell. The same goes for the lance. So we're then left with boots of speed and potion of true strike. Boots of speed is a very handy thing, so I can definately see a person wanting to get those. If he can't, a potion of haste would work just fine. And one would probably not be too far off by assuming that a fighting character at that level has got such a potion if he doesn't have the boots. So we're left with the problem with the potion of true strike, which may or may not be allowed, depending on your DM. Now, to roleplay the encounter.

DM: You're being attacked by <insert CR16 monster here>, roll initiative.
After rolling initiative:
Paladin: Great Pelor! I'd better haste myself to beat that foul creature. I drink a potion of Haste. After that, I cast Holy Sword. This foul demon shall taste the wrath of Pelor!
Other characters do their stuff.
Paladin: Better make sure I hit the foul thing, so I drink my potion of True Strike, then I charge him, employing both smite and power attack to deal as much damage to him as possible. For Pelor!
And thus, the paladin attacks, dealing a lot of damage, in a nicely roleplayed fashion.

Seriously though, employing a bit of strategy != powergaming, in my opinion.

The DM would just have to give the party some bigger fish to fry, as Baldak hinted at.

 

OK, even if I concede that what you are doing is roleplaying, no creature is going to wait for you to get ready. What you are doing takes time, and while you are getting ready, the monster(s) is already attacking. Drinking a potion while being beaten upon is not as easy as BG1 and BG2 make it. Drinking a potion can be dispupted just like a spell. I just think that for a paladin to actually accomplish this extreme smack down, He would need a DM willing to allow everything just work out perfectly, which doesn't happen much.

 

True, but I think it kind of assumes that the Paladin is not the only fighter class in the party. Of course, neither casting a spell nor drinking a potion is very hard if the opponent hasn't readied an action for it. 5' back, assuming that gets the character out of harm's reach, then cast spell or drink potion. Assuming the opposition doesn't know of the player's tactic in advance, it should work pretty well. Old DM pulled that one on us a few times