Rogue levels

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Hey all,
I was just wondering what the minimum number of roque levels is needed to disable the bulk of the traps and open most of the locks in the game assuming that the character has 20 dexterity (my rogues are always elves or halflings) as i want to have a fighter 4/rogue /mage x

Cheers.

 

Start with one rogue level and you'll get more than enough skills! There aren't many traps that will deal much damage. Take that level when you create the character for some extra skill points.
Skip the fighter levels and make it a rogue 1-2/wizard x and you tave a good character that does every rogue-task. The fighter level will slow down your spell progression and weaken you. Take 1 of them only if you absolutely must have a spell sword that uses large weapons. The second roguelvl is for evasion, but should not be taken before you have at least 20 lvls wiz.

 

Hardly any rogue levels at all. My Rogue 3 / Bard 12 can deal with everything.

 

All locks can be bashed easily. And there is also the knock spell if you don't like brute force.

The traps are different.
There seems to be a random d20 modifier, so you might succeed with just 5 skill and fail with 20.
The traps aren't dangerous anyway, just annoying.
Handling traps requires int, a mage with 20 int and 2 skill points in it is as good as a rogue with 12 int and 6 skills point.

You don't need any rogue levels at all. It's enough if you have an high int character who spends points in the thieving skills.

Starting with 1 rogue level allows to distribute a lot of skill points at the beginning, so I recommend doing that.

If you want a halfling or elf, then a halfling rogue1/transmuter x is probably the strongest choice, since a transmuter with high alchemy skill can do something special in the game and you'll probably have a sorcerer in your party to handle the other spells.
Spellcaster power grows enormously with levels, so taking more rogue levels will weaken your character.

But even a pure rogue is strong in IWD2. The base attack bonus (BAB) increases by 3 every 4 levels, nearly as fast as the fighter's, and the rogue deals out additional 2-12 sneak attack damage. Weapon specialisation isn't that great since you gain only +2 damage and loose flexibility.

If you want to play a fighter4/rogue/mage x you have to take 3 rogue levels and a race with mage as favored class (like elf) to avoid getting an XP penalty.
You get a fighter who can use mirror image and thieving skills that way.
It's not an overpowered mage but it can still be fun.

At the end your average party level will be between 16 and 17, so you can conclude how many mage levels you will get during the game with the different combinations.
I'd use starting stats like 11-20-18-18-6-3.

 

what is so special about a transmuter with a high alchemy skill. if i ever go for a specialist mage, i generally go for either conjuror or necromancer. is it worth playing through as a transmuter for the first time for what ever you are talking about?

 

You can make a potion which increases HP permanent and other potions.

The opposing schools for transmuters are also not as important as the schools most other specialists can cast.

Necromancers loose illusion spells like mirror image and (improved) invisibility, which leaves them vulnerable.

Conjurers loose evocation, and there a so many evocation spells like magic missile, web, fireball, ...

Transmuters loose necromancy and abjuration, which isn't that important. Animate dead or dispel magic can be cast by the cleric, stoneskin by the primary arcane spellcaster.
Only finger of death is really powerful, but it can't be cast before you have reached mage level 13 and found the scroll late in the game.
If you play normally you won't be able to memorize level 9 spells like WoB during the game and the spell scroll is found too late in the game to be really useful.

If you play HoF mode or use other methods to reach high levels you can afford to add a level of another spellcaster class which allows specialists to cast all mage spells.

 

Do any of the other specialist mages gain these abilities (same or different?)

 

No, only the transmuter gains the special ability to make one HP-potion, but it only gives him +5HP. Not really worth the loss of some fine spells or one level unless you've already planning on taking an that level for other reasons.
The diviner is probably the best specialist as they only loose conjuration spells.

 

Or no rogue levels. My paladin/wizard was able to have some way with traps with less than 10 points in Search and Disable Device each and some +5-7 INT bonus or whatever I had.

 

If you add a single level of sorcerer or cleric, you willl find out that your specialist mage can miraculously learn and cast ALL of the mage scrolls, while still reatining +1 spell per level bonus. Can you smell the great cheese already?

Ah, and rogue levels, more rogue levels will igve you sweet bakcstabs, err, sneak attacks. My level 30 rogue had 15d6 sneak attacks per hit, that WAS nasty. Although I admit I used him as the main ranged attacker for the most part.

 

@chevalier
By starting with a rogue-level you gain a lot of starting skill points if the intelligence is high and you raise the maximum level of those skills.

 

Besides, highest int mages get so many skill points per level that after using them in all of their class skills, they still have tons left, which can be used in cross-class skills such as thievery skills. My necromancer with 28 INT was also very skilled in Hiding, Pickpocketing and Traps.

 

Even in HOF, is it the same, or higher skills will be needed?

 

Only pickpocketing gets harder in HoF mode.
But 1 skill point and 1 potion of master thievery was enough to pickpocket the most important thing, Ned's Lucky Knucky with my solo druid. Pickpocketing others is nearly impossible though, even for a high level rogue.
But you don't have to pickpocket.

 

It is due to the increaed HD of the pickpocket victims in HoF, right? It makes no sense to me, but so all of the spiffy 3e rules.