Rogues in 3.5

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At the moment, i'm in a 3.5 campaign playing a Rogue. Also in the party, we have a Fighter, a Ranger, and a Cleric. Basically, my character is feeling kinda useless. I'm considering talking to the DM about removing my character from the party, and rolling a new one. Any suggestions/tips/comments/questions?

 

A few things to point out, the first time they do not have you around and they get slamed by a trap you will suddenly become a important person.
Also with the number of skill points you have it may fall to you to be the face of the party (providing that the cleric is not sinking his points into diplomacy, and in that case you can bluff.)
Also never forget that any attack you make where you are flanking the opponent counts as a sneak attack, the damage dice add up fast.

However in the end it all depends on what kind of game the DM runs, and now that you have voiced a concern he may (IE should) try to create situations where you can do things the other simply don’t have the points for.

 

We come across a fair few traps, but they're nothing that the Fighter can't survive. He can pretty much walk in and take the damage from them. Sneak attacks are good, but a reasonably rare occurance, nowhere near enough to keep me as a Rogue. He's got a fair few points in Bluff, but that isn't amazingly useful.

 

What alignment are you? I find the thieves in my group usually wander around and steal things, either from the town/village we're in or other party members. How is your thief built? A scout or archer or something else?

You could try taking levels in another class. Ranger can get you some free weapon feats depending on what fighting style you choose (archery or two weapon). Sorcerer perhaps or bard for some arcane magic, though sorcery can be easier to explain for RP purposes. If you are partially neutral, you could take some druid levels. The high Fort and Will saves balance out a thief nicely. Non-lawful can get you into barbarianism or the other side as a monk (LG, LN, LE) and both get you a higher moving speed.

 

I'm CN, and i've been thinking of taking a couple of Sorcerer levels. It seems to be a good way to give the character a little bit of a kick, and I can take Arcane Trickster as a prestige class later on. I've got 13 Charisma, so that's enough to take a couple of Sorcerer levels.

 

Most DM's gear their adventures toward specific character types. Some are very fighter oriented, some are magic oriented. A lot can balance the two. Utilizing a rogues skills is difficult to build into an adventure for most DM's I've known (going back even to previous editions). It is difficult to keep the rogue player involved in all the aspects of the game.

Usually, not many rogue levels are necessary for most adventures -- a multiclass is a good option. I usually find the wizard (as opposed to sorcerer) is more appropriate for a rogue; who usually has a high intelligence for additional skill points. However, a dex based fighter (or ranger) build is quite good too.

I really don't have much experience with 3rd Ed (or 3.5) except through CRPG's -- but the rogue/ranger/shadowdancer is awesome.

 

I think i'm going to take a couple of Sorcerer levels. I've got 14 Charisma, so I can do it. I'm thinking of taking the following Spells:

-Cantrips:
Flare
Disrupt Undead
Touch of Fatigue
Mage Hand

-Level 1:
Color Spray
Shocking Grasp

Any suggestions?

 

I personally love rogues! Rogue is the most versitile class there is! You can be anything from a lying, cheating merchant, to an acrobat, to an assassin! Anything almost! In any group there is always a chance for a rogue to shine. Whether you be the negotiator, the scout, the brains, or simply the person who while the others a fighting the monster, you're making sure that they don't stumble into anything else.

 

Also, as long as you are not the one taking the hits, you do massive damage with your sneak attack, so they'll love you in combat, too.

 

'Shocking Grasp' is nice, but consider 'Ray of Frost' as a cantrip. With a sneak attack, it can deal quite a lot damage.

 

Well, I'm posting on here like a total loon, but you already know what I think, because I'm part of that group.

Well, to re-emphasize, don't change your character! We do need the rogue; rogues are quite one-of-a-kind. Those spells you suggest are quite good ... I quite like "Ray of Enfeeblement" as a level 1 spell, though.

If I were you, I'd go for the dualling with sorcerer. It'd give your character and our group some great advantages, 'cause we don't have the arcane magic at the moment.

 

Er, you can sneak attacfk with spells? I thought it had to actually be an attack... Anyone shed some light on this?

 

As long as you roll for attack, it can be sneaked.

That means touch attack and ranged touch attack spells can get sneak damage applied to them.

 

this also goes for feats like pointblank shot and the like. It will give you a +1 bonus to hit and damge with ALL range attacks including spells that require a ranged attack roll. Think of ray of frost with this feat and sneak attack. 1d3+1+xd6 damage with your snek attack, very nasty!

 

Well as someone else mentioned earlier, i would go for Wizard instead of sorcerer. purelly becose a even if you pick up say 3 levels of wizard you can get alot of various spells, and learn more from scrolls. the sorcerer wil only learn a very selective few spells. thus less variety. And the wizard can always spend a couple of xp points to scribe a few scrolls (with hes FREE scribe scroll feat) so any spells he might have a use for, but dont have memoslots for is always available in an emergency (feather fall example). Do note that to scribe 1 fetherfall cost you only 1 XP in creating cost, no big deal.

Alternativelly, go fighter, ranger or barbarian. great classes to combo with rouge all of them. Rage + sneakattack is amasing, Fighter gets you lots of feats and very good combat abilities, can round you out very much. Ranger usually fits more with a "scout rouge" type of person.

But if you want to be efficient in combat, start talking with the fighter, and start discussing tactics with him, so he helps you to setup flankings. As long as you flank, you get sneak attack on ALL attacks.

I have been on alot of teams where nobody understood this and just hacked at the closest enemy always. and my ranger had to be the one setting up flanking for the others (fighter, barbarian, rouge) so they got the flanking bonus and sneakattacks. this usually left me in insanelly hazardous positions, that could have been avoided if they cooperated a bit more. the 5foot movement is there for a reason, use it as much as posible.

I also gues you have some ranks in hide and move silentlly. scout out the enemies first, then agree with the others that you sneak in behind and backstabb their spellcaster when the others charge in. you will fell might important when you put a shortsword through the guts of a enemy wizard, and hes orc minions flee in terror at having lost their leader before the combat starts.

 

The bit about "hacked at the closest enemy" sounds VERY familiar.

I've spoken to the group about giving me a chance to scout, and to the fighter specifically about flanking. My AC is 17, so i'm fairly good in close combat. The biggest problem is only having 11 str, so i'm considering taking Weapon Finesse as a feat (16 Dex).


EDIT: @Yoshimos Heart
Under Point Blank Shot, it says "+1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with Ranged Weapons"

Spells aren't weapons

[ October 30, 2005, 16:51: Message edited by: Firey ]

 

All spells that require a ranged attack or ranged touch attack (rays) are considered weapons.

From the SRD:

You can even choose 'Weapon Focus (Ray)' as a feat.

 

I would likewise suggest wizard if your intelligence is like your charisma (if it's not at least a 12, don't bother). It means a shorter level dip (since 3 levels will get you 2nd level spells), and more versatility in spells you can learn... and you can carry scrolls for things you know but might not need all the time.

However, focus on spells that don't vary a huge amount with caster level. For instance, magic missile is not going to be your friend... you're never going to get the most out of a spell that tops out at 9th level. You're far better off with, as others have suggested, low-level spells that increase on a level by level basis, and enhance your primary function.

And remember, once you get those levels of wizard, you can use a lot of magic items.