Role playing items?

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I was wondering just how strong a roleplayer that some of the people here are.

For example how likely is it that a good character would use the Robe of Vecna? seeing as Vecna was a half god and probably one of the most evil B******s ever not very likely, and what about getting over 18 str without a str increasing item? or weilding two Katanas and Bastard swords or worse a B sword and hammer?

 

It's fully possible, depending on what race you are of course. IMO, and Elf could never have 18 strength, tough a half-orc, human or dwarf sure could have. There a people that can lift 250kg and pull trucks, so why not? Dwarves are, as everyone surley know, strong and stubborn. Orcs are supposed to be strong, though the orcs in BG2 don't impress me the slightest.

Katanas are not strictly two-handed swords (like the...Two-Handed Sword is), though the Samurais always wielded them with two hands as far as my education goes. The stick Ninja-To & the small Wakisashi however, was widley used by Ninjas, and one-handed. The long versions of the Ninja-To's, are still considered "Stick Katanas" AFAIK.
So wielding two katanas if you don't have uberstrength, is a bit over the top. I've got a few of my strong P&P characters wielding a hammer and a large sword. Not something a halfer or elf would do though.

A Dwarf or Half-Orc having a charisma of 17 however...

 

what???
sorry, it must be just me but I just don't understand your question...

 

Actually, katanas are extremely low-weight weapons. Real katanas weigh less than 5 pounds. I've done some medievel fighting with weapons, and it is actually quite common for people there to wield two katanas (we use wooden copies not the real things for practice although the "fake" ones are identical in length and weight).

So for weapons like katanas, I think dexterity would be a factor more than strength as to whether or not you could dual-wield them. As far as bastard swords go, that's a different story.

Bastard swords are quite heavy (at least 10 pounds), and it would be extremely difficult to wield two of them unless you're really strong. I myself am pretty strong, and I find that wielding a bastard sword in one hand for any significant length of time to be quite tiring. That having been said, your size and strength also go a long way it what you can wield. One of the people in our group is about 6.5 feet tall, weighs about 280 pounds, and is quite muscular. He wields a two-handed sword with one hand.

So what I'm saying is it entirely depends on the character. For some weapons, dexterity matters more, for others, strength. Not to mention certain races should be barred from using certain items completely. For example, while a dwarf is certainly strong enough to wield a two-handed sword, to sword would be bigger than him, and rather unwieldy for a character of his size...

 

One thing that always ticked me off was the collection of penalties for dual-weilding.

I don't know about anyone else, but holding something in my left hand has no effect on the accuracy of my right. And the way it works in the game iirc is that the off-hand only gets one attack per round anyway. So how is it justified that fighting normally with one hand, and occasionally striking with your other, gives so many penalties? If anything, it's easier to hit someone with two weapons.

Similarly, why would having two swords, instead of one, decrease your AC? Holding two weapons, you are logically more likely to parry incoming attacks.

For both attacking and defending, examples are Drizzt and Entreri. They can both fight and defend against several enemies at once. I think that the penalties for thac0 should be eliminated by one proficiency point, or maybe two, and the third should enhance it. Dexterity should also have a role in dual-weilding.

Of course, there's the universal excuse: "Game balance". But we're talking about roleplaying here. We're talking about what is actually reasonable in the game world. And I find dual-weilding penalties ridiculous.

 

How does wielding two weapons decrease your AC? Sure, as opposed to holding a shield, but you can't hold a shield AND two weapons...

Unless you're talking about the single weapon style which improves AC. But still, using two weapons doesn't make your AC worse, it just doesn't make it any better. Am I missing something here?

 

Hmm, maybe I am. Everytime I dual-weild, my AC is always lowered, but I don't know if I had single style as well.

 

Aldeth, I guess there's diffrent versions. The ones I've been reading about (and holding) have had a quite heavy weight. I'm not familiar with pounds since we don't use it in Sweden, though they sure weren't lightweighters.

 

The samurai class did not use two katanas--the whole point of the second blade (wakizashi) being smaller was so that the samurai would have an effective weapon if attacked in close quarters, such as inside a building. As a side note, there are katana disciplines which teach both one and two-handed wielding.

Ninjas, despite popular lore, rarely if ever got into fights (well, fair ones at least). They would perform the occassional assassination, but they were generally spies, scouts and intelligence gatherers. As such, they typically preferred the straight, smaller blade of a ninja-to.

 

Dualwielding shield not increase AC. At least, not overall AC. Having quite the experience with both singlewielding and dualwielding, I can say that you can block/parry a lot of attacks with your off hand. A onehanded slashing weapon that is. Any blunt weapon, like a mace, will crash right through your block. Never mind a maul or other twohanded weapons. The force of impact is simply to large to effectively block with something held solely by your hand (as opposed to a shield, which divides the impact over the lengt of the entire (lower) arm )

I might see the logic in dualwielding giving a bonus to AC vs onehanded piercing/slashing weapons. But other than that? No, not ever. Oh, and this is assuming you have a shortsword in your offhand, not a dagger.

 

Was Vecna an evil God in the Forgottem Realms world? I thought he came from the Planescape world so there's no logical reason why a good spellcaster in the Realms wouldn't wear his Robe.

As for duel-wielding penalties: I can see where people are coming with on this. In theory, if you were good enough at fighting with two swords, you'd have a better AC because you could use one primarily for attacking and the other for defending (and occasionally attacking when your opponent wasn't expecting it).

But there clearly has to be a balance somewhere. Give people the ability to duel-wield weapons with no penalty whatsoever and everyone would do it.

 

I thought of the same thing while thinking, but forgot to write it. Nobody blocks a warhammer with a shortsword. Stupid me.

And yes, if dual weilding had no penalties, everyone would do it. But that's exactly the point - in real life, alot of people would do it, because fighting with one hand empty just seems like a waste, unless you can actually use an empty hand to grab and punch, in which case you would technically be fighting with your off hand anyway. If you could choose to have one shortsword or two shortswords, the logical person would take two, even if they don't use the second. If a blade comes in from my left, I'd certainly like to have a second blade, because it would be easier to block and parry.

In short, in real life it is easier to parry with two, rather than one, swords. And the topic here is roleplaying, not "how to balance the game". I just like dual-weilding, what else can I say?

(And here it comes! Andar gem! )

 

I'd quite like to be able to make attacks with shields. A shield with a great big spike in the centre could be used for piercing attacks and would certainly be better than having a plain old shield any day.

 

I seem to think that Vecna was originally from FR, a powerful mage who became a lich, and eventually grew so much in power that he moved to the demiplane of Ash and is now the god of secrets.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

You are wrong, Vecna is a Greyhawk being, not a FR.

 

Isn't there a Vecna character in the Planescape world, though? I've not played the game so I could be wrong but I'm sure I read that somewhere. And yet there's his Robe in the Forgotten Realms World. And the archmage himself in the Greyhawk setting.

Which one does he come from?

 

http://www.svgames.com/tsr9582esd.html

From the depths of antiquity, he arises. . . .
Trapped in a mockery of his former kingdom, he broods. . . .
In hatred and spite against the one who betrayed him, he schemes. . . .
The other lords of Ravenloft may possess horrific power. . . but Vecna is god.

Trapped by the Mists of Ravenloft, the lich lord Vecna plots his escape and revenge against Kas the Destroyer, his traitorous former lieutenant.

Vecna Reborn takes brave heroes into the dark, oppressed domain of Tor Gorak, where Kas whips his subjects into submission to serve in his never-ending war against Vecna and Cavitius, a realm in the grip of ancient magic and malevolent undeath. The heroes must struggle to stop arcane rituals, insane cultists, and monstrous abominations form granting Vecna Reborn presents a terrifying tale of betrayal, madness, and sorcery that may tear apart the Demiplane of Dread itself.

 

I'm pretty sure Vecna was a lich from Greyhawk and he became so powerful that he became a god of Greyhawk.

His Robe in FR is explainable-Deirdre has it, and she's from Sigil; it's quite possible someone from Greyhawk had it and lost it in Sigil.

As an aside, many of the FR spells seem to come from Greyhawk mages: Mordenkainen, Otiluke, Tenser, Bigby, etc.

 

Yes, when dual wielding weapons, the odds of you blocking something with your offhand weapon depends almost entirely on what type of weapon your opponent is wielding. If you are weilding similar weapons (like both short swords or long swords, yes, it's entirely possible. It's even possible to use a smaller weapon (like a dagger) to parry a longer weapon like a long sword.

If you want to find a time when dual-wielding was popular, Rennaisance Europe is a good canidate. People of this time always wielded a rapier (a thin, somewhat bendable sword) in their main hand, and a second rapier (or more commonly) a dagger in their off hand. The dagger proved to be just as good of a weapon for parrying as the rapier, and was much more maneuverable in tight spaces. Other things that were used in the off hand included a buckler (to swat away the rapier) a gauntleted hand (again to swat away the rapier) or a cloak or net that was designed to entangle your opponents weapon (cloaks and nets were the least common).

If you go back to Medieval Europe, hardly anyone dual-wielded. Most common was a weapon with a shield. As has been stated, a shield spreads the force of a blow over a large area, lessening the impact. The one group of people who did use two weapons were the vikings. They typically had a sword in their main hand and a bearded axe in their offhand. The "beard" is a hook at the bottom of the axehead. It was used to hook your opponents shiled and pull it down or away from your opponent so you could hit him with the sword.

 

Couldn't a skilled swordsman parry a warhammer with a sword?

Well, not parry so much as kind of knock it aside enough so that it doesn't actually hit? I've never actually fought a warhammer-wielding maniac whilst carrying a couple of swords, but I'd guess there's at least a chance you could do this sort of thing.