Shields pretty much useless?

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Through SoA and ToB, there are only two NPCs who can make decent use of a shield, Anomen and Viconia (maaaaybe Jahiera). All other characters, including most choices of PC, either can't use a shield or are better suited to dual-wielding or two handed weapons. Therefore, it is often my experience that only one or even none of my characters uses a shield, which seems like a pretty big waste. Has anyone found any decent use for the things?

 

Well, sometimes, having shields are essential. Like the Anti-Beholder Ray Shield, cannot remmember its name though...

Some shield are good for certain situations. If I know I would be fighting against lots of skeleton Archers, having a large shield of a Shield of the Fortress would be nigh essential.

Yeah, it is kinda true that shields are rather a downside, I boosts your armor class, and that has to be a good point albeit the only one.

 

There's a very nice Shield in the Adventurer's mart that actually *deflects* arrows. Much better alternative than the Fortress Shield, and essential for any cleric lest you risk a Heal Spell fizzle on a 1 HP character.

 

I always give Anomen and VIconia shields. That arrow deflecting one from Ribald's must be pretty neato... but I've never actually got around to trying it out after buying it. I take Diathya's (sp) shield always for VIconia, and the Shield of the Order for Anomen when he needs it.

 

The sheild that reflects missles is nice, but I wish it was a little stronger in the AC. But it is really cool, because it reflects any missle, whether magic or otherwise.

 

Baldurans sheild is good to give to Minsc for fighting beholders. The Darksteel sheild is good for any member that you want to have a decent armour class for.

 

I like the Sentinel shield which you get from one of the drow merchants in Ust Natha with its nifty +5 to AC. Give it to someone like Aerie (who never has a very good AC at the best of times) and it can help out quite a bit.

The Shield of Balduran is pretty much essential for fighting Beholders and I'd hate to take on the Beholder lair without it. I once gave it to Korgan and he cleared the entire area out on his own.

 

I don't think that the reflection Shield reflects the ice damage from the ice arrows of the skeleton archers. For them it's probably easier to send in someone buffed and AC'ed to the max with the fortress sheild to draw fire and then summon some creatures to engage in melee followed by the rest of the party, or at least those are my usual tactics. but at higher levels of course you don't have to bother with any of that.

 

the best shield to me is the shield of harmony from trademeet. oh, and if you got the itemupgrade mod, there are some really kickass ones.

chars for shields are imo : viconia, aerie, anomen, korgan and sometimes the PC.

 

I had Korgan using shield + axe/warhammers. The Fortress Shield sure lowered his AC quite a bit, though he's better of dualwielding - in SoA atleast. In ToB, he gets messed up real bad real often with an AC of ~-5. Hardiness is a must, though my Blade with AC of -10 (-16 with Greater Evasion) never gets hit.

Mostly though, dualwielding/2-handed is better. One of the few bad things is the game IMO. Hard to make balanced though.

 

Most of my characters actually do use shields. Certainly Anomen, Aerie, Viconia, and often times my PC, Korgan and Minsc.

The reason for this is that the second weapon has to actually do something for you other than give you an extra attack each round to outweigh the benefits of using a shield. Most fighters/barbarians/paladins/rangers already get 2.5 attacks per round (fighters get 3 if you have the grandmastery fix installed). So if you are going to use a second weapon, it is only increasing your damage potential by 25% per round, as you only get 1 attack per round with your offhanded weapon no matter how many proficiency points you put into two weapon style. Most people think that dual wielding double your damage potential (100% increase) but this is only true for characters that aren't from fighter stock, who aren't ideal for dual wielding anyway.

A second point is there is absolutely no reason unless you have at least two proficiency points in dual wielding to pick up a second weapon. The penalty to THAC0 for no points is -4 for your main hand and -8 for your offhand. That's a huge penalty. In fact, in this scenario, you're probably going to miss with your offhanded weapon anyway, so it's not doing anything for you! That's why I don't dual with Korgan until very late in SoA, and I sometimes put it off until ToB. This is also why I never dual wield with any character that cannot receive at least two stars in dual wielding. (which eliminates all mages, all clerics, sorcerers, monks, and some thieves). If you can only put one point in dual wielding (like Aerie or Viconia for example) you are still going to get a -2 penalty to THAC0 with your main hand, and a -6 penalty for your offhand. Again, you're probably going to miss with your offhand, so it's not doing anything for you!

Like I said, the reason to dual wield comes down to asking the question does a second weapon do something other than slightly increase my damage potential? If your offhand weapon raises strength, allows you to memorize additional spells, gives you an added attack on your main hand, or gives you some ability that you wouldn't otherwise have, then it may be a good idea to use it. If all it does is give you an extra swing per round, you are probably better off picking up a shield. There are so many shields in the game, that you can easily get an enchanted one that will lower your armor class multiple points (already a huge benefit) and many shields give other benefits such as conferring resistances, immunities, and protections.

The benefits of dual wielding are usually small. The benefits of a shield are large, and very real, and are present for every battle.

NOTE: The one case where I completely advocate dual wielding is with bards and their kits. Bards can get multiple proficiencies in two weapon style, plus they can only use bucklers - and there aren't many of those in the game - so they are the one class where dual wielding is not only recommended, but you're actually hurting your character if you don't...

When in doubt, crunch the numbers. I'll use Korgan as an example. Let's say your early in SoA, he's level 10, and has no proficiencies yet in dual wielding. Your choice is to wield two axes (we'll say the +3 axe from the Copper Coronet and the +3 axe from the De'Arnise Keep) or only one of those axes and a shield.

For both those axes, the damage is 1d8+3, and another 2 points of elemental damage. So the average damage per hit is 4.5+3+2 = 9.5. Korgan's THAC0 at level 10 is a base of 10, with a bonus of 2 for strength, and an additional bonus of 3 for grandmastery with axes, which brings it to 5. Add on the +3 bonus from the weapon, and it goes down to 2. However, since he doesn't have any proficiency points in dual wielding, if he wields two axes, his THAC0 with his main hand would be 6, and his offhand would be 10.

Let's say he's attacking something with an AC of 0. He has a 95% chance of hitting with each swing if he's wielding one axe, and he has three attacks per round. So the average damage is 9.5*3*.95 = 27 points of damage per round.

Now, let's do the same scenario for two axes. Because of the THAC0 penalty, his chance of hitting with his main hand weapon is 75% with three attacks per round, and his chance of hitting with his offhand weapon is 55% with a single attack per round. So his mainhand average damage is 9.5*3*.75 = 21 per round, and his offhand damage is 9.5*1*.55 = 5 per round. 21+5 = 26 points per round.

So early in SoA, Korgan actually averages one point of damage LESS in wielding two weapons as opposed to wielding one, plus he loses all the advantages of having a shield! It's a easy decision in the early going of whether or not to dual wield.

EDIT: Forgot to add the bonus damage for strength! In Korgan's case, it's +4. This means the average damage per hit is 13.5, not 9.5. Redoing the calculation (I won't write them out again) you get a average of 38 points of damage for one weapon, and an average of 37 for dual wielding. So it's still a one point difference.

[ March 03, 2004, 16:33: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

Yea, well mayby I forgot to mention that I *never* dual-wield without 3 slots in it.

* Two-handed: Minsc, Sarevok, Keldorn.
* Dual-wield: Haer'Dalis, Valygar, Korgan (put every level up in dual-wield and start dual-wield with 2-3 slots).
* Shield: Viconia, Anomen, Viconia.

Pure Cleric and Druids always wear shields in my partys. Playing a thief tho, always one-handed-style unless there be a swashbuckler in the picture.