Some tactical advice needed

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Hello again!

I finally started - or should I say - am on the way on the road to complete Icewind Dale for an outstanding second time! Yes there is much irony there, since I've started this game about 200 times and discarded it, because I did'nt like the party, a character or whatever. My problem was always that I didn't find a balance that suited me. For instance - my usual number five pick (I always play with a party of six) tended to be Drow Rogue (2)/Wizard (x) - which really creates a lot of problem. I don't want to have to characters that are in danger of getting killed everytime a orc or goblin ignore my melee guys. So I read JUPP, UPP, every other guide, most treads about party creation and tried to answer the question "What do I like/what is my style?". I really wanted 2 melee experts, 2 clerics, 1 sorcerer and ... Well that's the problem since it usually meant taking the damn drow R(2)/W (x)! I had the classic Aasimar P(x)/F(4) in there for a long time, until I decided she didn't made the cut. The I read JUPP again... And Coins guide (again).. Tried the idea of a Rogue (2)/Bard (x) - which really sucked. Hmm.. Druid... Don't like them - never have but maybe... A couple of tries later I think I found my own "power party". Now keep in mind that I only play on normal difficulty and that powergaming for me means that I 1) likes the party and 2) can really use their strengths. So this is what I came up with (and so far it is both fun and works really well):

A. Half Orc Barbarian (6). Neutral good 21*-18-18-2-10-6. I need someone that is a classic warrior (hack and slash) and can keep a couple of opponents busy. Used to be a F (4)/Barb (x) but I really feels that a single class barbarian suits me better.

B. Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus (6). Chaotic good 18-16-21-3-18-1. Well no surprise here - that character has always been in my team. Solid second tank who focus on buffing and summoning undead.

C) Human Sorcerer (6). Lawful good 10-18-16-10-4-19*. Another classic - "see monster - nuke monster".

D) Drow Druid (5). Neutral evil 19*-20-16-5-16-5. Really don't like druids but there are som spells that sold it to me. Intends to take one level of Dreadmaster later.

E) Deep Gnome Dreadmaster of Bane (4). Lawful neutral. 16-20-14-3-21*-1. Really didn't consider Dreadmaster but... Works out really well and is more effective than I would have expected.

F) Deep Gnome Rogue (2)/Paladin (1)/Illusionist (1). Lawful good 16-21*-14-18-5-1. The Drow replacement - and so far it's a winner. Much more melee oriented and versatile than that old R(2)/W (x). Will just take Illusionist levels from now on.

* means that I put another atribute point there. Now over to the questions:

1) Exactly what feats should I take from now on with the Barbarian? I picked Power attack, Cleave and Dirty fighting so far. Weapon specialisation seems wasted. Dodge? Dash? Rapid shot looks like a likely candidate.

2) Exactly how do you use your Druid best when you are indoors? I'm running around the caves in the horde fortress and just realized that most spells she has memorised is useless right now. Not a problem for the party but annoying. And what spells do you recommend from level 3 and up?

3) Is there any point of taking a level of monk for the DG Dreadmaster? Yes I know I will receive an XP penalty (and it will mean worse spell selection/cripple my cleric if you will) but shouldn't there be a huge boost to his AC? I'm looking for the best/most versatile solution for the party - not the most powerful one.

4) Any good weaponsuggestions for the barbarian and the multiclassed gnome? "Holy Avenger" is long down the road (missed it my first time) and the whole point of the character was to be a good alternative in a melee fight. Barbarian will pick up Sherincals sword but what is good after that? I have no problems with spoilers (since I played the game before but can't remember exactly).

That was a long text but hopefully there was some useful information so I can get some good answers.

 

1) I put a feat choosing list in my guide. Since Hiugh Bastard was primarily a barbarian, the suggestions should be mostly valid. Take into account that pure barbarians can't wear heavy armour though.

2) So many areas are indoors in ID2, so I actually had very few outdoors-only spells selected. Just one or two Call Lightnings. But they weren't great anyway, since most battles were over before it could strike twice. If battles did last that long, the enemies often had some sort of protection from it too.

3) Don't go there. Clerics are casters who can wear heavy armour, and get no casting penalty. It serves no purpose to unequip the armour, when there are plenty of great armours out there with bonus effects. Druid is a great combo with a level monk, since the AC bonus even carries over to the shapeshift forms.

4) Loads of great weaponry. Characters with a warrior class have proficiency in all simple and martial weapons already, so don't be too hasty to pick feats in any endgame weapon type. Wait and see what drops, and what works for you.

On a sidenote: Have you ever used the Character Arbitration screen midgame? It would have saved you hundreds of quits/retrys. You can remove a party member, create a new one, cheat it up to the same level, etc.

The only problem is bonuses acquired, that's why I always have an important save before those events...

 

No I haven't but the again - I actually like the character creation part of the game (and Targos is still fun). Thanks for the input - I checked out your guide again. But remember that I won't go to HoF so I can't carboncopy your Barbarian (which I wasn't after anyway). Improved Critical, Dodge and Rapid Shot looks likely. Extra Rage?

Well I guess that the DG will stay Dreadmaster since he's actually great so far. Just finished the Horde Fortress and realised that the hard part is actually getting in there - Guthma & co are easy. All guys leveled up again and now I'm considering if there are things that I should buy before going away with Oswald. Killpercentage for the team ranges from 23% (Barbarian) down to 13% (Rogue/Paladin/Illusionist). The sorcerer is actually in second place with 18%, which surprised me since she hasn't had Fireball that long. Obviously a great shot with the crossbow.

Still annoyed about the Druid though. Barkskin is great but indoors a lot of the fun disappears. Since I try not to rest that much, the useful spells vanishes fast. And I realised that the DG R/P/I had forgotten to put skillpoints in Knowledge Arcana, which meant that I had A LOT of items I couldn't identify. Speking of that - how much does one usually need to put into Search and Disarm? I think I have 5 or 6 points in Search and 7 in Disarm. Do I need more? Or should everything from no on go to skills that improves wizard? I don't care about Pick pocket, Move silently and Hide.

 

It's hard to say which search and disarm skills are perfect since the game seems to use d20 rolls for success. Just raise it if you fail more often than you feel acceptable or ignore it, traps usually don't kill instantly.

It's no surprise that you feel annoyed by your druid, you crippled him by choosing drow as race, effectively making him a character permanently drained by two levels, crippling even more by adding a dreadmaster level.
Nice druid spells are giant vermin (level 4, summons improve with levels) and static charge (level 5), supported by GSF transmutation and scion of storms.

 

Well I haven't taken a Dreadmaster level yet (not set in stone) so it's just the "Drow handicap" thats the problem... That being said I'm not disappointed with the character - just that when the party is indoors it loses a lot of it's power. My problem is mostly that I'm not used to playing a druid at all (and I hadn't considered the fact that some spells don't work indoors). Clerics I get but the Druid is still a challenge...

 

A druid is basically a fighter/mage/cleric (less emphasis on fighter) and one of the high points of being one is that they get powerful spells earlier than wizards and sorcerers. They have spells like Beast Claw, which temporarily turns your druid into a fighter and is really powerful considering the level you get it, and then there's Thorn Spray, which is easily aimed and does 6D10 damage. That is the equivalent of a level 10 Fireball, except druids get it at around level 6 or 7.

Druids specialize in persistent area of effect spells, and you should use this to your advantage since most indoor settings have corridors or choke points. Spamming spells like Spike Growth in a room full of hostiles while you focus on guarding a choke point is guaranteed to get you through certain fights easily, for example.

 

Thank you very much for your help guys! I decided to save my team and start over with all your advice (still gonna finish that game someday because it was fun while not the best...). So I went Bard, Barbarian, Druid, Sorcerer, Battleguard of Tempus and Rogue (2)/Diviner (X). At least the R/W is a Thiefling this time (and the only ECL). I was worried about the lack of melee power (and not sure about the Bard) but... This is by far the most powerful/fun/effective combo that I've ever tried! Of course it helps when you pick the "right" spells & feats... Almost no healing spells are required (not a single one for the druid and onliy on 2 CLW for the cleric). Having the Bard take care of Knowledge, Alchemy and Bluff means more skillpoints for thieving skills with the R/W. Horde Fortress was never this easy! Sherincal died in a matter of seconds. Just a few things left in the Ice Temple...

...whick brings me to my question: I usually have the Barbarian (or the best tank) go through Battlesquares but it requires a lot of heling, spells, rest etc... Is there perhaps some other character that can be more effective? Or do you usually pick your strongest warrior and just buff him to maximum for best result?

 

I used my druid for the battle squares and she won every rank at every level without saving between battles.
Pumped her with all buffs and protections available and had her cast as many static charges as possible (stacks with itself and is even deadlier if you have GSF transmutation and scion of storms) before the battles.
Be aware that you don't have to win all battles when you first get there, you can return anytime before chapter 5 or just ignore them.

 

kmonster: Yes I know but I like to finsih up every area before moving on... Just finished level 1 & 2 with the Barbarian - which was easy. Tried other alternatives (cleric and druid) and won - but lost a lot of hit points at every rank. Seems that Barbarian + buffs works best for me. Btw - you were right - human druid vs drow druid is no contest. My druid (human, single class) is really good!

 

Bards share the same THAC0 as clerics, so as long as you give him a powerful weapon (like a two-handed throwing axe) he should be fine as far as damage is concerned. He won't do spectacular damage, but he definitely won't lag behind either.

 

Just completed level four - tried other characters but they were slaughtered (regardless of buffs). Half-orc Barbarian is going all the way (I've completed the game include Battlesquares once before) and is the only character that can deal enough damage. Just a big lottery - get the big guys and your smooth sailing! Get greater boneguard or greater werewolf and you're reloading...

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....since I'm horrible at giving thanks... Just wanted to take this moment and get somethings off my chest... A couple of months ago I lost my log-in to SP - worse than that I had changed my E-mail adress since my last visit! So I contacted the admins of this site and was instantly granted help! I'm what you call "the definition of an average player" (when it comes to IWDII). Thank you coin..., Paracelsi, kmonster for giving great advice! Thank you all guys for allowing a slightly middleaged guy (who still is just vanilla) to feel welcome everytime I go here... Not done yet - I will still ask a lot a stupid questions!

 

Tharlok, you asked for good spells/feats to take. I just wanted to note that Rapid Shot is the best feat available, hands-down, in the early game, and remains in the top 10% throughout the whole game. With Rapid Shot in play, ranged characters do more damage than melee ones (especially if you are using weapons with STR bonuses to damage, like slings/darts/hammers/etc., although note that the damage bonus won't show up on the Lying Character Screen).

My current party is composed entirely of drow and deep gnomes (for universal SR), which you might think would make it difficult in the early game because of XP penalties. When we took Shaenegarne bridge, everybody was still level 2, but it didn't matter: 5 characters with Rapid Shot (and one or two melee fighters to hold the enemy in place) is better than a Fireball. I didn't even get around to using my lone 5D6 exploding potion, we mowed through the enemy so fast.

Anyway, anybody who isn't a 100% melee fighter all the time should take Rapid Shot, even the spellcasters.

-Max

 

I usually give Rapid Shot to my R/W as my first skill. It makes sense (to me) to help out the guy whose gonna be the weak link in the beginning. That being said - unless you're very familliar with the game - it's a jungle out there when it comes to picking useful skills!