Song & Silence

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Well the Rogue & Bard book come out last week. Mime is in the mail and it should be waiting for me at home tonight. Has anyone else picked up a copy yet and if so what do you think? There is a great deal of possibilities for these two classes and WotC have an unique chance to either do something great or really screw it up.

So what's your take on it? Thanks.

 

I'll probably be picking it up tomorrow.
If you go here and scroll down to the 16th, you'll see what is inside it.

 

Well I've seen it. And personally I'd rather spend my money on Magic of Faerun or the new villains and evil organizations book they have out for FRCS. Song and Silence is nice, and it had some nice things in there for thieves. But then the main body of the book is definately geared more toward thieves. They got the majority of pretige classes, and a few of the ones listed were defintaly nice, in both RP value and benifits. There is a long section on do it yourself traps, which is an improtant and soemwhat underadressed skill for rogues. Bards have a pretige class of their own, and some new spells (assasins also get a few new spells), but their improvements are few that I saw at least. All in all, not as good at Tome and Blood. I was hoping for soemthing more interesting, but not a must have IMO. I'd rather get ripped on the $30 FRCS suppliments

 

Just got it (about bloody time, too! ) and I must say that I like it!
Review broken down into chapters:

Chapter 1: Prestige Classes
10 nice prestige classes. Though most of them seem targetted at the rogue at first glance, most of them can be taken by the bard and a few other classes too. Most of them would probably be interesting to play, save for the Fang of Lolth, which gets transformed into some kind of humanoid-spider abomination (not a drider), and is therefore more of an NPC kind of PrC. A cool villian perhaps for those running a game where there are Lolth-worshipers.

Chapter 2: Skills and feats
Some nice info on DIY traps here, a little more on poisons in the DMG and of course the feats. Most of the 26 feats are interesting, and both classes have their share. Nice additions to the classes.

Chapter 3: Bard and Rogue
New equipment and weapons for both classes, including a comprehensive list of bardic instruments. An ok section. It also contains information on undead bards.

Chapter 4: Organizations for bards and rogues
Contains various default guilds for the two classes. Some interesting ideas here for the DM who wants a bit of a different thieves' guild or bardic academy.

Chapter 5: You and the world around you
Basically about making your character fit into the party and the campaign, making sure he doesn't step on that powerful dark magician's toes. Not very interesting in my opinion as most people will have played the game enough by now to know how to get along with other players. Contains some interesting psychoanalysis on the other classes though Also contain some info on getting the most out of your sneak attacks.

Chapter 6: Spells
Spells for the bard and the assassin. Some good, others not so good. Most seem to fit the classes though, and none of them seem overly powerful.

Overall my favourite classbook this far. Now, to wait for Masters of the Wild, coming in February 2002.
But of course, this is a generic book, so if you run a game on Toril, you're probably just as well off with an FR supplement, as Crawl said.

 

Well a nice review by Azardu. I agree with most of what he said but I think T&B is a better book. I think WotC pulled back on the PrC after T&B. I do think they were a little over powered in that book but a little under powered in S&S. In addition only one PrC appeared to be for bards. More of a balance would have been nice. The feats are excellent, but I wish they added some new skills.

Over all a good book.

 

A look at the Prestige Classes and what they do:

Dread pirate:
Plunder the seas. Attainable by both classes, though probably mainly for rogues. It could make for an interesting bard though. Poetic bard in port, the great fear of the seas when out sailing.

Dungeon delver:
A nice one for dungeon exploring parties. Gains some nice abilities. Again attainable by both classes, although obviously meant for rogues, as it requires some time of solitude underground, which the bard would no doubt spend in a tavern playing music instead.

Fang of Lolth:
Accomplish the use magic check and have a fang scarab fuse to your neck. Transforms you into a humanoid spider. Again attainable by both classes, though more of an NPC PrC, as I may have mentioned before.
Outlaw of the Crimson Road:
Again attainable by both classes. Again I can see both the rogue and the bard taking this one, if they have been made outlaws that is.

Royal Explorer:
Get hired by the royal house to explore ancient ruins. Could be taken by both the rogue, eager to earn some money, and the bard, eager to find forgotten lore.

Spymaster:
Have multiple identities without being sent to the asylum. Once again, attainable by both rogues and bards, and I can definately see them both fit this role.

Temple raider of Olidammara:
Rogue with spells. Could be taken by a bard too, though plundering other temples hardly seems like a good road to fame, as is often a goal for a bard.

Thief-acrobat:
For the rope-balancing, house-top running thief. Not for bards though, as it requires the evasion ability. Gains a lot of nice abilities at the cost of dealing extra damage.

Vigilante:
Self explanatory. Can be taken by both classes. Gets spells and abilities for tracking down the guilty to punish them.

Virtuoso:
Be an entertainer. Clearly a bard class, as it requires the character to be able to take 0-level cantrips. Has slower base attack increase than the normal bard, but gains more special abilities. Spells increase by +1 level of existing class each level. Not meant for the adventuring, dungeon exploring character.

Most of the PrCs are attainable by both classes, and while there is one PrC clearly only meant for the bard, the same holds true for the rogue. Most of the PrCs are interesting concepts too, no matter which of the two base classes you choose.

Hmm, I wonder if anyone actually reads this anyway

 

There is an excerpt over at the WotC that features the "Virtuoso" and the "Fang of Lolth". Take a look: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20011207b

 

Yes, Azardu some people did. A nice breakdown of the PrC from S&S. I agree the PrCs are a interesting mix. Many ideas I wouldn't have come up with. But do you think they are too deverse? By this a mean too specialized and not generalized enough for common use. The other PrCs from S&F, DotF, and T&B appeared to by more usable in a wider range of settings. Maybe this is only my impression. What is your take on this?

 

I like to think that Prestige Classes shouldn't be generalized. That's what sets them apart from the base classes in my opinion.

Look at it this way: Those prestige classes represent possible careers for a bard or rogue to specialize in. And seeing as those classes are so versatile as they are, there are a lot of career possibilities.

In a city based campaign, for example, a rogue might place a lot of skillpoints in bluff, gather information and innuendo and eventually become a spymaster, whereas in a dungeon crawl, aiming for the dungeon delver or temple raider would be better and more logical choices, as those better fit that kind of rogue.

The same applies for the bard, which in a city based campaign might be largely content to entertain an audience as a Virtuoso, while he in a dungeon crawling campaign would be better off as a Royal Explorer recovering some ancient lore for the crown.

So yes, they are specialized, and rightly so in my opinion.