Spanish Civil War.

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A few facts on the Spanish Civil War.
Eleven bishops - 1/5 of the total number - were murdered. 12% of the monks, 13% of priests. 283 nuns were assassinated - countless raped. In the province of Ciudad Real, the mother of two jesuits was murdered with a crucifix pushed down her throat. The Vicar of Torrijos was whipped, crowned with spikes and forced to drink vinegar. A chip of wood tighted on his back, then he was shot. The bishop of Jaen was killed, alongside his sister, before 2000 people. Their executioner was a militia woman known as La Pecosa. Some priests were burned. Some had their ears decapitated.
"La Pasionaria", or Dolores Ibarruri, teared down the throat of a priest with her bare teeth.
The most hardcore commies massacrate both POUM - Partido Obrero de Unificación Marxista - and anarchists alike. It seems they were not extreme enough.
All these facts can be checked in JOHNSON, Paul "Modern Times".
Human beings and communists dont seem to cross.

 

The nationalists were not that much better, wiping out anything that resemebled anything "red", so it's not like the republican side was responsible for all the slaughter I'm not sure if they were even responsible for the majority of deaths. So the way I see it you represent an awfully onesided version of the war and completely ignore the mass executions performed by nationalists.

EDIT: "It has been calculated that the Nationalist Army executed 75,000 people in the war whereas the Republican Army accounted for 55,000. These deaths takes into account the murders of members of rival political groups."

"After the war it is believed that the government of General Francisco Franco arranged the executions of 100,000 Republican prisoners. It is estimated that another 35,000 Republicans died in concentration camps in the years that followed the war."

From: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/WARspain.htm

 

Maybe I did not made myself clear enough the first time, so I again. ALL these crimes were committed by commies.
I gave you a source, so you might check it if you are skeptical.
As for Franco armies, I would want to see sources as well for their "crimes". Because you know, killing the likes of people who committed all those kind of evil assassinations and hateful actions is not a crime, but self deffense, and even a duty of any self respecting human being.
So please, no empty rhetoric and assumptions, and on to the facts and sources.
EDIT: I see you provided sources. Franco executed the kind of people who committed those attrocities I posted. This is the kind of punishment which should be expected. No less.

 

Oh I don't doubt your numbers nor did I claim to do so. I offered you a link and some numbers. The execution of 100 000 prisoners of war can hardly be called self defence especially when it's done after the actual war.

EDIT: Heh, so you're actually claiming that the 100 000 prisoners of war were all rapists and murderers? Well of course if shooting another soldier in civil war is considered murder then perhaps, otherwise calling them all criminals is quite rich.

 

It can be regarded as punishment though. Just like we execute criminals for the vile acts in many places.

 

Wow, Svyatoslav, you just discovered that war isn't pretty. People have done autricous things in war since the birth of mankind, and both the Franco-Fascist rule and the Communists did things that makes you sick of humanity.

However, saying that the genocide of 135000 prisoners after the war was 'punishment' is not only sick, but totally incomprehensible and hypocritical.

 

I have to admit, I don't know a whole lot about the Spanish Civil War. But I did have a great uncle, (one of my favorite uncles) who fought in it for Germany. He was a pilot in Hitler's Condor Legion, and he, along with the rest of his crew were shot down over Spain. They crash landed their plane, and managed to survive. He never thought much of Hitler, having fought in a war that "Germany had no business in," as he always was quick to comment on.

After that he had had enough, and after he healed, he left Germany for good and settled here in the US - New York. But for the rest of his life he carried the scars (burns) on his face and hands, from the war.

 

Didn't General Franco allow Hitler's Luftwaffe to practice dive bombing on the city of Guernica? I remember learning about it while studying Picasso in an Art History class. While certainly a painting by Pablo Picasso is not a scholarly reference, if true, that would certainly qualify Franco as a first rate bastard. I mean, to let a military ally practice bombing techniques on his own people seems to surely show a lack of appreciation of innate human dignity.

But hey, when comparing evil to evil, does less evil qualify as good? Probably not to the people who ended up with a bomb falling through their bedroom into the kitchen.

 

I find it amusing that Svytoslav in one topic gets offended when called a fascist only to start a topic devoted to defending fascist Franco and Spain.

The Spanish civil war was one of the dirtiest conflicts ever and there were plenty of atrocities to go around. When all is said and done though so does the fact remain that it was the fascist who rebelled against the will of the majority and won the war by being much nastier than the Republicans and continued to rule the country with an iron fist where no dissent was allowed for several decades. You are actually the first person I have ever seen defending Franco Svytoslav, you should at least have credit for originality.

 

Actually, according to him, Franco weren't fascist. I don't know what Svy views him as, but he've called him a good christian for slaughtering civilians who had any affliation with the 'dirty commies'.

Well, duh. Everyone who were against Franco were 'dirty commies' who deserved nothing but death.

That is correct. Hitler used the whole Spanish Civil War as a testing ground for his new toys and training grounds for his troops.

So can the mass executions in the early 20's by Lenin and his goons if you twist it enough. After all, the Tzar wasn't exactly a good guy either. Your double-standards don't work, it's as easy as that.

 

From what I understand Franco was a selfproclaimed fascist just like Mussolini.

 

Sssh, it's a secret. It's all a conspiracy by the NWO to make people hate him, when he's really a bastion of good and pure.

 

Franco wasn't a fascist. He was a right-wing military dictator, but not exactly a fascist, which doesn't mean better a worse. It just means not there.

The crimes of reds surpass the crimes of the Nazi. This was the case in the Spanish Civil War but also in Poland during WW2.

People will likely be able to find examples of crimes committed by Francist troops, but show me something to match what commies did on priests out of spite for anything Christian, a madness that gave them up to the devil along with the basest of what a human can be.

If I were to fight commies, I could see myself having the most unrepentant criminals of them placed against the walls and told goodbye. But I don't really fancy the idea of killing one with a Marx book, a Lenin statue or my bare hands (well, maybe in combat) or anything. I'm not a fan of getting animalistic and, well, rampant commies are animals. With no insult intended to real animals.

Hmmm... what happened to priests who were against Franco? Rightist dictators haven't been overly kind towards the clergy, either. Just let us recall archbishop Romero (and no, that wasn't Spain). Still, I doubt Franco outmatched the wretched reds.

 

I find that quite an odd statement to make especially since when you look at the raw numbers you can see that the nationalists killed a lot more people than the "reds". To me killing an avarage worker and raping his wife is no better than slaughtering a priest and raping a nun.

 

Hey, the only good commie is a dead one. You know, kill a commie for mommy and all that.

 

And rampant fascists. And rampant nazis. And rampant stalinist. And rampant monarchists. And rampant anyone not depending on ideological view. Don't just say that commies are bad, cause Franco's goons were just as bad.

It's unfortunate that the Poles got in the way, but the whole German campaign was a big rape-and-slaughterfest. They torched buildings, raped pretty much every woman between 12 and 80, drove things like large wooden spoons and forks into the crotch of the women they had previously raped, and nailed living civilians up on walls and doors.

Now, imagine you are a Russian soldier on the Eastern front, who when after taking back a Russian village sees this. Yeah, pretty pissed, so they start doing the same on pretty much all non-Russians during their way to Berlin. I don't say it's justified, but it's an explonation for their behaviour. Just don't put the blame on the commies, put the blame on human behaviour.

[ October 02, 2005, 17:39: Message edited by: Rutkowski ]

 

That is correct. However, the name of the system with the highest frag count is communism. Not any of the other ones. What is to blame? Politics? Particular ideologies? The fact of having any ideology at all? I would say contempt. It always starts with contempt. Just where does the contempt come from?

 

I say, that if Hitler had won WWII and had given as much time as the stalinists did, the fragcount for the nazies would have been much, much more. The Soviets just had more time, that's all. The nazi KPY* was VERY much higher than the stalinist.

*Kill Per Year

 

Have some stats? That's hard for me to believe, especially when it comes to Polish victims. Actually, stats will "favour" commies when it comes to Polish victims. What about world-wide?

 

How many did Soviet kill over the eighty years they had power? How many did Hitler kill during his 12 years in power? I don't have any cold facts here, but it's quite a simple education.

And no offence, but not everything is about the Poles. There are 200 other nations on Earth too, you know?