spell penetration, spell focus, improved initiative - please explain.

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I got again to play after long break and I'm a little confused when it comes to choosing feats; what exactly do these feats do:
1) improved initiative - I don't see difference in melee. do only spells and ranged weapons count?
2) spell penetration - are all spells more potent or only selected? is it worth it?
3) spell focus - again, are all spells from selected school more powerful?

do clerics benefit as much as sorcerers/wizards from above spell feats?


for single class human paladin, which stat is more useful: WIS or CHA?

currently i have:

str 16
dex 10
con 14
int 10
wis 12
cha 14

is it good allocation?

 

1) only works on paper...

2) It works against targets with Magical Resistance (depending on your level you have to bypass the target's MR to affect the target) this feat gives you a bonus to that roll it doesn't increase the effect of the spells you cast.

3) Yes. It's much harder to succeed your saving rolls and therefore many spells are much more effective (many spells like Fireball cause only half damage for instance on a successful Reflex save). Think about Disintegrate and Finger of Death, these spells are very effective with the proper spell focus.

You have to consider spells in your spellbook when choosing the spell focus.

CHA is more useful but don't skimp too much on WIS either. Your allocation is fine and can be played but it's not powergaming.
Remember you have to get 10+ the highest spell level you want to cast in your corresponding ability (WIS for Paladins, Rangers and Clerics). Which means that with these stats you will only be able to cast 2nd level spells (Paladins can cast 6th level spells at level 29 so unless you increase your WIS later you will need at least 14 WIS since you probably won't get more than 4th level spells for your Paladin in the regular game unless you solo).

 

Just a comment related to semantics. In 3rd edition "magic resistance" is referred to as Spell Resistance, which basically functions like an Armor Class against spells.

To beat a character's SR, you need to roll a caster check that is a roll of 1d20 + your caster level + any relevant feats.

Taking one "point" in Spell Penetration allows you to add +2 to this roll, taking a second increases this to +4. This is generally considered a worthy investment for any character who casts a lot of offensive spells. It gets more useful the further into the game you are, as the likelihood of facing creatures with spell resistance increases, as does the level of their Spell resistance (e.g. A Drow's SR is 11 + character level).

[ July 26, 2006, 20:55: Message edited by: Marceror ]

 

thanks, guys.

Then I guess that in my case (sorcerer, level 6, just got fireball) spell focus: evocation is much better choice than spell penetration, as it affects saving rolls of all enemies, while spell penetration only increases chances of reaching those resistant to magic.

BTW, are there many enemies with Spell Resistance? I guess these are shamans, sorcerers, bosses etc.?

 

In general, it tends to be your tougher enemies that are most likely to have SR. Your standard rank and file enemies typically won't (though some races such as drow, dueger, etc) have this as a racial feature, monks have it as a class feature.

But it's with your toughest opponents that you really want to make sure your spells count, and having spell fail due to Spell Resistance can really change how tough a fight is. So, for a sorcerer, in particular, I'd highly recomend at least getting one point in spell penetration. Your logic related to getting spell focus: evocation early on, is sound. But by levels 9 -12ish, I think you'd be doing yourself a favor by getting some spell penetration worked into the mix as well.

 

One problem with spell penetration, is that if you have spell resistant party members (e.g. Drow or Deep Gnomes) then spell penetration might make it more likely that your area effect spells will harm your own party. If this is the case, then firing the spell Lower Resistance at those few tough enemies may be a better option than taking the Spell Penetration feat.

 

Or you could just try not to drop nukes on top of your party members!

Another quirk about Spell Resistance (and I'm not certain how faithfully this is implemented in IWD2, but per 3E rules) is that it applies to beneficial spells and cure spells cast on party members as well. So you could attempt to heal a party member, and fail because you did not beat his/her spell resistance. I guess this is another argument for getting spell penetration, rather against it.

Technically, in P&P rules a character can take a standard action to "nullify" their spell resistance, thus eliminating the possibilty of "resisting" a beneficial spell. But that's in P&P....

 

Dropping nukes on your decoy party members (who will be geared up with SR and Eavsion) is a pretty common tactic (as one of the best ways of making sure your targets stay put as you cast the spell).

 

Improved initiative matters much more in turn based games, skip it for better feats.

Spell focus is absolutely crucial to a bad ass wizard or sorcer. The +4 increase on top of a high level spell and high main attribute (chr for sor, int for a mage) turns your spells into killing machines. Greater spell focus evocation makes delayed blast fireballs a killing machine and greater spell focus necromancy makes banshee's wail clear the whole screen.

Spell penetration is a nice touch to your mage, but doesnt come into play as much as the focus feats and spirit of the flame. Pick it up at a later level when your trying to perfect your mage.

 

I realize this, but I couldn't resist. The older I get, the less compelled I am to accept something just because it's "common"--and the more distorted my mind becomes. So here I find myself looking out for the characters, who if they were real, likely wouldn't appreciate the tactic, regardless of how uber the players think it to be. I can envision a union of high AC "decoys," fighting the system for equal rights, challenging the notion that they are decoys at all--a grave slander against their rights.

And of course, laws being passed prohibiting spell casters from "wreckless endangerment casting tactics," promoting a safe and sane approach to saving the world from the BBEG de jour....

You know, I could have just as easily not responded here, and avoided an opportunity to tip the world off to my emerging insanity. But no, that would have been far too sane a thing to do methinks.

 

Spell focuses are the best feats for a spell caster who trusts his heavy arsenal of spells to over come foes. So bards and support-healer clerics hardly need it. An aggresive sorcerer, or wizard really needs them.

Get Spell Focus in Transmutation and Flesh to Stone, Disintegrate spells are suddenly killing machines. I killed the tough and fearsome Guardian with my sorc's Disintegrate spell, in the first try.

Necromancy is VERY important. Skull trap, Horrid Wilting (it really is horrid without spell focus), Finger of Death (the best one target be gone spell, devastating against fragile spell casters! They stand no chance to survive at all!), and...gasp...the uber, fearsome, thrilling, fantastic Wail of the Banshee:AKA:The winner spell, THE killer spell, ultimate tool for mass destruction, and the answer to 'how to make your game easier'...this spell will butcher all living enemies in your screen with Spell Focus; hope you get it.