Spell thrust and breach: Why do they not work?

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WHen I use spell thrust To get rid of a minor globe of invulnerability it does not work what am I doing wrong?

Also what is breach used for.

Oh and what on earth is peirce magic???

 

I never used spellthrust, but I can answer the other ones.

Breach is used to remove many kinds of protective magics, especially stoneskin! This is a must against magic users.

Pierce Magic (lvl6?)
This spell dispells up to ONE level 8 protective spell, the highest get dispelled first. If the spells are the same number of level, it's random.

In addition it lowers magic resistance by 10% + 1% pr level of the caster.
Some creatures are magic resistant (like dragons, drow, certain mages) and this spell is rather usefull to lower their resistance, so you can fire e.g. magic missiles at them and still hit.

 

Yes Breach is lvl 5, and Pierce Magic is lvl 6. Also note that: Dispel Magic and Remove magic are lvl 3. Lower Resistance is lvl 5. Khelbin's Warding Whip and Ruby Ray of Reversal are lvl 7. Pierce Shield is lvl 8. Spellstrike is lvl 9.
All of these are either Abjuration or Alteration type spells if anyone is thinking about specialst mages.
Also, a note on spell thrust: the book's description says it can take down Globe of Invulnerability, but Globe's spell description makes it sound like dispel magic will take it down. An error?

[This message has been edited by Big B (edited August 23, 2001).]

 

Usually breach or a similiar spell will dispel their defences but a good mage will have another one up in seconds, what do you do when all your spells of that nature run out?

 

The only real problem I have is when those mages cast their spell triggers--you know, "protection from magic weapons," "spell deflection," and "protection from missiles" all at once, or something. If you breach that, they can't cast more spells fast enough to keep up, and they only can have one trigger apiece. (-:

 

You only really need to breach an enemy mage twice (normally) 1) when they contingency and 2) when they spelltrigger. Elsewise your tanks can take em pretty easily.

 

Spell thrust and breach won't work if enemy mage has himself spellshielded, you must try twice.

 

All of those magic-pericing type spells have their uses, but also limitations depending on the level of the spell. Spell-thrust becomes less useful as you advance since most of your opponents use higher-level spell protections. Breach is quite useful because it removes a lot of combat protections at once, but it doesn't affect some of the high-level spell protections. Ruby Ray of Reversal and Khelben's Warding Whip (both lvl 7) are very good and remove almost any protections and enhancements you'll encounter.

I believe there is a bug with dispel magic though. There are a lot of spells and effects it is supposed to remove but doesn't (including confusion and feeblemind). If I remember correctly, though, there is a patch that fixes this. If you search the site you'll find a link to it -- sorry, can't remember which patch or the link. Maybe check the Blackisle or Bioware site in the download/files sections. I did manage to fix it, and afterwards everything worked as it should.

 

OK.. I'll just add my 2 cents to this topic.

First of all.. I think it's important to note the difference between spell protections, and combat protections.

An example of a spell protection would be say, Spell Turning.

An example of a combat protection would be the ubiquituous Stoneskin.

Let's say a mage has both Spell Turning and Stoneskin cast on him. I've found that to dispel his Stoneskin, I'll have to take down the Spell Turning first, through spells like Pierce Magic and Warding Whip. Only when the Spell Turning is gone, will I be able to Breach the Stoneskin.

This is just my experience, and I've found that sometimes lichs can't be Breached even after I've cast like Ruby Rays, Warding Whips and Pierce Magics on them.. but it may be just my game.

Any thoughts on this?

 

I usually just use Breach and don't bother with spell protections, and that works just fine for me. Funny. Otherwise I am a huge fan of scrolls of Spellstrike, but since those are rare, I don't want to (or need to) employ them often.

 

Breach and lower resistence can only be negated by spell shield, so even a mage has lots of other spell protections active breach will still get through.

BTW it seems like liches are immune from low level spells.

 

Laksol is right a 100%. I like people who speak the truth, so Laksol, you've just got a credit from me if it means anything to you.

Indeed, nameless liches are resistant to all spells level 5 and lower. That includes immunity to protection removal spells of those levels - like breach and spell thrust.

Other liches and creatures can also be resistant to certain spells, i.e. rakshasa are immune to all spells level 7 and lower.

 

Ah, I see how it is now. Thanks for clearing up some of the doubts I used to have.. too bad there isn't a bestiary around that shows the properties of some of the monsters you face. I always thought that something was wrong with my Breach not getting through with lichs.

On a sidenote.. I believe that Dispel Magic, Remove Magic, and Breach all will work even if the enemy mage has spell protections active, as long as he's not resistant to spells of a certain level and below?

 

After using Breach Pierce etc. try a Miscast Magic soon after, or if you have another spellcaster, concurrently. This spell pretty much renders spellcasters harmless. A couple of them will make sure your enemy mage is about as dangerous as a naked beggar.

 

You know I've really not given Miscast Magic much time, like maybe trying to use it only once or twice. I'll try to use it more. Sounds good.

 

Extremist, is that an immunity or a resistance? Lower resistance is a 5th level spell...no effect on liches?

Man, where do you get all this info? Impressive.

 

It is Immunity. Or 100% resistance, whatever.

It is unbreakable and unlowerable.

 

I just tried something new on those pesky mages. Summon Nishruu (sp?). A handy little spell which my bard keeps stored for those occasions when miscast magic is out memory or just won't come in time. Truth be told, i don't remember where the blazes i picked up that scroll, but Nishruu is something like 7 hit dice and is actually healed by magic. He works his particular brand of malice by strapping on to the nearest enemy mage and stripping him/her, round by round, of every spell they have stored in their little craniums. Now, Nishruu or Vishruu or whatever can, i think, be dispelled or some such thing away and won't stand up to any summoned thugs so you've got to make sure to watch his ass while he draws spells from mages. Most mages that i've encountered keep whipping out the spellbook on ol' vishroom in the most amusing manner. One time my party and i just stood in the hallway and watched as shroomy slapped around that old fool in the sphere (with a little help from an earth elemental). The best part is, that no matter what the case, he makes a b-line to the mage and infallibly draws all of said mage's ire. It's a thing of beauty.

 

Julious, you would be talking about Nishruus and they're bigger cousins Hakeashars (sp?)

Great fun to use in any mage battle, I'm not so sure...but can they be killed by the level 6 Death Spell which kills all summoned creatures?

 

If Julius summons nishuru on me, I'll definitely death-spell him...