Steroid Scandal

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I'm sure this is no news to anyone in the US, but yesterday, a former professional baseball player, Jose Canseco released a book in which he not only said he used steroids himself, but also named many other players, some of whom are still active.

Every single one of those players named have denied the accusations, saying the Jose has either entirely fabricated the story, or that his story is so widely exaggerated that it bears little relation to the actual truth. Jason Giambi, who actually has admitted to taking steroids even called Canseco "delusional".

But hears something that doesn't make sense to me - why isn't he being sued for libel if all of these stories in his book are fabrications. Sure, he danced around some issues - like saying players like Sammy Sosa and Miguel Tijada appear to be on steroids - that's simply a personal observation and opinion. However, he wasn't so light-toed on some of his other statements. For example, he said that he and Mark McGuire would go into bathroom stalls before thier baseball games and he would personally inject McGuire with steroids. Now that statement is either true or it's not. If it's not true, then it's a slanderous statement that should be classified as libel (not slander as it's in print). McGuire has denied the accusations, but isn't going to sue him.

He also named other players, like Juan Gonzalez and Rafael Palmeiro. These are all players that are likely headed to the Hall of Fame someday. The only thing that I can think of is some players, like McGuire, don't have entirely squeaky clean images. Sure, McGuire was widely popular in the US, but he has admitted to taking andro (a steroids precursor) and creatine (a supplement that aids he muscle recovery after working out). But here's the thing - McGuire didn't acquire those things illegally. At the time he was using them back in the late 1990s, not only were they legal for baseball players to use, anyone could buy them at a local GNC or any other store that sold dietary supplements. They were legal in every sense of the word, but steroids were not - so why isn't anyone suing his ass?

 

IMO, because most of them are guilty as charged, and they can hide behind the fact that Canseco is a loon.

Some of the players maybe innocent, but they don't want to further the scandal, but others, like McGuire...yeah, he never did steroids. He just went from looking like a slappy middle infielder to Mr. Universe in 2 years using andro and creatine.

Baseball needs 2 things: to enforce a legit drug policy, and for this scandal to disappear ASAP. I think that the MLB Players Association is going to "discourage" and lawsuits against Canseco.

 

Say it ain't so, Joe. (famous quote from 1918)

I don't think we'll be seeing any 60+ homerun seasons anytime soon....

The real tragic issue in all this is the example the abuse of steroids gave to young players (and their obsessive parents). Steroid abuse was and is rampant amoung young athletes -- it's almost required now in order to be a standout in many sports. Real sad.

 

Shoeless Joe Jackson - way to go T2B!

Actually DW, I think it IS possible to get huge off of andro (technically called androstenedione). It is a steroid precursor, and if you take the stuff supplementally, it can be metabolized by the body to be an actual steroid, so yeah, if you took andro, you took steroids, it's just that at the time he was taking it, it wasn't LISTED as a steroid. Like I said, you or I could walk into a local GNC about 5 years ago, and buy a carton of it off the shelf if we wanted to. Creatine, in fact, is still available at your local GNC.

 

I am not a body builder, but there are quite a few in the office (my company maintains a full gym with free weights and machines), and they all got a huge laugh out of how McGuire was fooling everyone by telling them he was taking andro, when in their opinion he had to be injecting steroids, and while these guys are not DR.s, some of them are quite experienced with steroids . To a man they claimed that andro was marginally effective at best.

I am not saying you are wrong, but if it was that good for everyone, these guys would have been all over it. Perhaps McGuire's liver was exceptionally efficient at processing it, or perhaps the small sample I had are just "haters" of the product.

 

I was under the impression that is was widely known and accepted that a large amount of baseballers were raging 'roiders and that it was perfectly within the rules of the game. When was steroids banned from baseball?

I know that in some of the other pro leagues such as the NHL steroids and such are banned but the NHLPA refuses to let its members be tested. Have been a bit of a ruckus when Swedish players have refused to been tested when they come home for national play while refering to the NHLPA's charter.

 

It was more of a don't ask, don't tell policy, but I believe it was still against the rules.

They added rules to allow for testing and punishment for violations.

Here is a link to a news story if anyone is interested:

MLB steroid policy outlined

 

Do you think the govenator of California has a position on steroid?

Nah, I guess everything is fair in politics and Hollywood. Don't ask, don't tell....

 

OK, a few points here. MLB has had a long standing policy that it was against the rules for any player to take any illegal substances. However, because there was no TESTING being done, it was impossible for the policy to be enforced. The only drug related suspensions that you saw in MLB were the result of people getting caught by the police, and that wasn't for steroids, it was for hard-core drugs, cocaine being the most noticable back in the 80s and 90s.

MLB did not start actively testing players for steroids until last year. They are also testing for other drugs, but conspicuously absent from the list are amphetamines, which are also thought to be prevalent in baseball.

Onto the andro issue. My experience with talking to people is much different from Darkwolf's. While I am not a body builder by any means, I do work out regularly, and my physique is considerably better than the average person. It's not going to get me a career in the WWE or anything like that, but I'm pretty built. I also talk to a lot of people who work out. I have never taken andro myself, but I know people who did, and they told me that within a couple months of being on andro, they were able in increase their maximum lifts by about 10%, which is huge.

To put that into perspective, my last set of bench press is 235 pounds. 10% of that is obviously 23.5 pounds, but for arguements sake, let's round that to 25 pounds, as I only increase weights by 5 pound increments. How long did it take me to raise my bench press from 210 pounds to it's current 235 pounds? About a year and a half. So they were able to accomplish in two months what it took me 18 months to accomplish.

Now, just to show that I am not completely looney in backing the players I will say this: I think that anyone who thinks Canseco is full of it is just as delusional as Canseco. However, I also think you have blinders on if you think everything that Canseco says is to be believed. The truth no doubt lies somewhere in between. Some of those mentioned are guilty as charged, while others are not.

@ dmc - In addition to the media circus, I was under the impression that it was very difficult to prove libel in court. You are probably the best person to ask if this is true or not. I was under the impression to prove libel you had to A.) prove the statements were false and B.) prove that the false statements had a negative impact on you or your character. In my opinion B. is a tough sell. These guys have made millions playing the game, and many of them are continuing to make millions in endorsement deals after the careers are over. So it may be hard to prove how they have been negatively affected by the comments. Also, I don't know how you can prove you were or weren't on steroids years ago. There are no blood samples hanging around from the 1998 season (or from even the 2003 season for that matter) where we can go back and see who was and wasn't using. Everything we are saying at this point is speculation.

EDIT: I forgot to mention creatine. For those unaware, creatine does NOTHING directly to make you stonger. It has two affects on the body. First, it causes the body to store a heck of a lot more water, especially in the muscles. This causes the muscles to LOOK a whole lot bigger, even though it doesn't make you stronger. The increased mass is due to water and not additional muscle. However, the second affect is that because your muscles are much better hydrated, they recover much quicker from any strain you place on them (like when you work out). Because they recover quicker, they don't get sore after working out, or at least the soreness doesn't last as long, meaning that you can increase the frequency with which you work out those muscles. So in that regard, it does help you build muscle, but it is indirect. It helps in that you can work out muscles more frequently, but it does not actively cause you to get more muscles.

[ February 17, 2005, 16:03: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

Isnt creatin legal? I am quite sure it is legal here. I do not know if it is allowed in sports.

 

It's illegal in olympic sports, and many sports do test for it and list it as a banned substance (the NFL for instnace). However, it is not illegal to purchase if you don't play in one of those sports where it is banned. I can go to the mall today after I work if I want and buy powdered creatine, which I can then dissolve in water, milk, gatorade or whatever, and it's perfectly legal for me to use. Similarly, creatine is NOT banned by baseball - afterall it isn't a steroid - and any baseball player can use it.

 

Interesting dmc. Here's my next question. Given the burden of proof falls on the accuser, wouldn't the onus be on McGuire, Sosa, etc., to prove the claims were false? Sure, they can say they lost a sponsorship or two because of the book, but do they not actually have to prove that the statement is false, or is it sufficient for them to prove that they have never tested positive for steroids? As I have said, the latter can be proven (never mind that McGuire has never even been tested) while the former is impossible.

 

I don't see anyone suing Canseco as he is more than likely correct about almost everyone he accused. Major League Baseball has the blood/urine samples, but has said they will not go backwards and test. However, if a lawsuit called for the tests it could get ugly.

 

@TGS

You see, that's the problem. MLB has NOT kept the samples on file - only the ones from the 2004 season, as before 2004, there was NO testing. No one has a sample to test to see if for example, Mark McGuire was on steroids during the 1998 season when he hit 70 home runs, or during the 2001 season when Bonds hit 73 home runs because during those years there was absolutely no drug testing in place in MLB.

While I agree that no one will sue Canseco over this, I think it is because they can never prove their innocence for the very same reason that we can't prove their guilt - namely that no one was tested.