Suggestions for a 4-member multiplayer party

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I am thinking of creating a 4-member multiplayer party.
I have only decided that my main character will be a kensai/thief.
What should the other 3 members' classes be?
My main purpose is powergaming. I want the most complete and powerful possible party because I intend to install every challenging mod.

So what do you suggest?

 

your character kensai/thief
cleric/ranger
sorceror
archer

or

your character kensai/thief
cavailer
mage/cleric
sorceror

 

ok...How about You...the Kensai/Thief
A Fighter/Mage/Cleric
A Wild Mage or Sorcerer (Wild Mages are Much More Fun)
Archer

 

You: Kensai/Thief
PC 1: Half Elf Ranger/Cleric
- all the healing, nifty items and party
leader (Sensate amulet+Charisma cloak)
- 2 wep. fighting with FoA, MoD, Crom Faeyr
PC 2: Dwarven Fighter or Berserker kit
- max Constitution, immunities with kit,
good saves
- 2 wep. fighting with AoU, Answerer,
Foebane, CF OR
- 2 handed swords (Lilacor, Vorpal) and
halberds (Wave, Ravager)
PC 3: Elf Fighter/Mage
- learn spells for extra XP, hold own in fight
- Vecna's robe, Amulet of Power, Staff of
Magi, 2 handed wep. style

Of course, this assumes your main character will be dual wielding Katanas and Long Swords. Personally, I'd stick the K/T with 2 handed swords and halberds - HLA Use Any Item+Carsomyr=FUN - and put the dwarf on 2 wep. fighting.

 

PC 2 and 3 would depend on personal preference. There are enough powerful classes for you to choose from, ranging from the Wild Mages (more powerful than the Sorc, imo) to the classical Kensai/Mages, down to the... vanilla Fighters.
But the 4th PC would have to be a Bard - Blade, Skald, Jester or even a vanilla one. There is no powergaming party without the Bard.

 

PC - Kensai/Thief (the mother of all powergaming )
2 - berserker/cleric
3 - sorcerer
4 - inquisitor

 

*cough* *cough*

If kensai/thief is so powerful, why don't you just take three of them and cream it with a sorcerer?

 

Four monks will pwn anything. Not like four sorcerers won't (sorcerers better than wizards for the limited number of high-level scrolls to learn from). Not like I can think of many ways of stopping four well-played clerics.

 

You said you're using a Kensai->Thief but have you ever considered a Wizardslayer(13 or 15)->Thief? UAI gets around the Wizardslayer limitations and the 10% cumulative spell failure is amazing. It goes through quite literally every single protection imaginable. Protection from Magical Weapons on a lich? No problem. Improved haste with Belm and another weapon of your choice and give it a round. No more magic. Spell failure works through everything and it lasts an entire hour. Combine that with complete invisibility (cloak of non-detection + hide) and backstabbing and you can slaughter mages, not to mention warriors and the like with traps and some sneaking about. I highly suggest you try it out. All you really lose is some backstab damage and you gain oh so much more. 100% magic resistance with Carsomyr and Human Flesh is nothing to sneeze at either.

As for the other PCs, I have some interesting suggestions that I think would make a very powerful party but not without some forethought.

PC2 - Bounty Hunter (credit for most of this information goes to Chris Lee's Thief Guide)

That's right, straight bounty hunter while you already have another thief. There is one reason and one reason only to do this: maze traps. From level 21 onward their special traps maze the target. At first this may seem like a disadvantage since you can't do anything to a mazed target. At least that's what I thought. But what you can do is prepare. Lay traps, summon monsters, buff your party, hide and wait to backstab. Whatever you want. You can really have a field day with this. If you throw one of these traps into a group (yes, they can be thrown as far as your thief can see, if you didn't know) everything will be mazed but guess who comes out first? Mages. Higher intelligence = faster return. How scary is one mage all by himself to your wizardslayer->thief who's had a chance to buff? Or even better, lay a time trap. Maze a group, lay a time trap, mage returns, time stops, 10 hits and the mage is out of commission. Like the spell failure on the Wizardslayer, these traps hit everything. You can even leave one for Irenicus in Hell so he'll be mazed as soon as he appears, effectively breaking the script so your PC just stands there in a cutscene. Believe me when I say you won't be disappointed with these things.

PC3 - Ranger/Cleric

As everyone knows, these guys are melee monsters. In this group, they would serve two purposes: primary (possibly only) tank and mage and/or cleric disabling. I'm sure I don't need to go into the many methods these guys have for tanking. With cleric and druid buffs (particularly Ironskins as it cannot be dispelled like its mage counterpart), this guy can become nigh untouchable. Summons can help for particularly nasty fights. The mage disabling aspect is useful when you are in closed spaces so cannot run off to trap and when there are multiple mages so your Wizardslayer can't deal with them all at once. Creeping Doom + Nature's Beauty = useless mage. This character isn't particularly complicated but hey, we all need a meat shield.

PC4 - Hmmm...

Well this character could go a number of ways. Most would say a Sorcerer, I assume. While no one doubts the effectiveness of Sorcerers, I have to ask what their primary function is. I'd say most parties use their mage to deal with other mages. Clearly, other mages are no real threat to the three characters I've outlined above. So they could use their sorcerer to apply area damage to big mobs. Again, I find this unnecessary. Two thieves worth of traps can apply great area damage and spike traps are completely unconditional. Some might say you have to work a lot harder to maze a group, lay traps, and then wait, than you would to just Abi Dalzim's, but I disagree. Abi Dalzim's is too conditional for me. If the enemy has magic resistance (and forget things that come in hordes and have high resistance, such as drow), you will have to lower it beforehand. With traps, it's the same no matter what. It could be argued that Sunfire works when magic resistant hordes are present, but PnP Sunfire does not ignore magic resistance. There's a mod to fix that bug somewhere. All in all, I'd personally only be using the sorcerer for party buffs (not too many of those are mage spells) or summons. Now admittedly, mages do have some of the best summons for a given situation. Perhaps not as versatile as Cleric/Druid summons, but better at their niche. Planetar excluded, mage summons are very situational compared to Druid/Cleric summons (Mordy's Swords, Nishruu vs. Fire Elementals, Skeleton Warriors) but they are often better. I believe, however, that priest summons can fill the summoning job well enough to not worry with the mage summons, especially once Elemental Princes roll around. Honestly, I can't think of a necessary character for this spot. Another tank might be nice (something simple like a Barbarian) or maybe a Blade, though I believe they are better off solo. Some might say an archer here but it seems like that would just be filling space to me. Personally, I'd leave it blank. Three-man teams are fine. But hey, it's your party.

So that's my ultimate party. Quite different than the others but I think it'd be loads of fun and incredibly effective if you're willing to alter your style just a little bit. Enjoy.

 

Right on with the wizardslayer. Those guys rule. The argument used against them is that they have annoying restrictions (fixed with patch and UAI), also that a kensai/thief can kill with one backstab rather than use spell failure.

If you play any AI mods, everything goes around with stoneskin on. No problem for the Wizardslayer, but terrible for the kensai.

I'd recommend a blade as well- they make great buffing fighters.
The R/C is a nice choice too... You need a healer, and the extreme combat skillz of the R/C are just sweet.

The last choice is harder. On the surface, it looks like you will need a mage/sorc, for high level nastiness. You have plenty of anti-mage ness anyway, so this slot is personal preference. Perhaps replace the blade with a Fighter/mage to get level 9 spells eventually, and grab an archer instead....

To be honest, any four PC's of your creation will do the job. Ask yourself what you will find fun.

 

Let me be honest. A good Wild Mage will own a Sorcerer everytime, anytime. Why? Because Nahal Reckless Dweomer, the Wild Mage's first level spell, is effectively an extra spell slot for any other spell level. So if you have, say, 9 Nahal's Reckless Dweomers memorized that translates to a possible 9 additional Level 9 spells - of your choice, whether you have them memorized or not, as long as they're in your spellook.
That's not all. The forced wild surges which accompany Nahal's Dweomer will almost always give you "good" effects/surges at higher levels (a roll of 20 yields the wild surge effect "Spell cast normally", so at higher levels you might want to forego casting Chaos Shield if you're feeling lucky). Of important note is the "I feel refreshed" effect, which effectively "re-memorizes" all spells in your spellbook. The most damage I've ever done using offensive spells with a Mage type character was with a Wild Mage, after I unloaded three quarters of my offensive spells *five* times (with not a few additional wild surges attached, ie, area effect and no save) on Abazigal.
Some of may say that the Sorc can probably do something remotely similar by abusing simulacrums and Wish spell scrolls. Besides the fact that the Wild Mage can do just the same, ever wonder what happens if the Wish spell gets paired off with the wild magic effect "wild surge: area effect"?
My record, atm, is 50+ genies.
The potential of the Wild Mage kit is tremendous. With a little luck, and strategy so you can make the best out of your Dweomers, it's probably the strongest kit out there. (although bad luck + casting Dweomers in "poor" conditions and you might end up getting your PC shapeshifted into a random woodland animal - or worse, gating in an Improved Pit Fiend in Irenicus' Dungeon.)

The Bard! The Bard!!! Don't forget the Bard! (+20 THAC0, AC, and damage, among other bonuses, to all nearby allies; Enhanced Bard Song x5)

[ July 02, 2005, 03:45: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

 

I agree with Sythesong Immortal about Wild Mages being stronger than sorcerers. They are much more versatile due to the fact that they can cast any spell for which they can find a scroll. It may be harder to find certain spells (so the sorcerer has an advantage there) but overall, I'd take a Wild Mage first. Though I still say my party doesn't need arcane magic.

 

The Wild Mage is more fun. Sorcerers are easy because you don't have to bother about choosing which spells to memorize. IMO Sorcerers are to spellcasters what Monks are to melee fighters: no that interesting though incredibly powerful.

I love Wild Mages. It would bring some variety to your party.
I would have a Ranger/Cleric (these guys rule) after that it's a matter of taste (the Blade with the right items is simply too powerful -read Scythesong's guide if you haven't yet!)

 

Thanks for all the interesting suggestions.
Especially the wizard slayer/thief is a very promising one and I will consider it in the future.

I have decided and already created the companions of my kensai/thief :

All 3 females (found some very good looking portraits and the appropriate soundsets) :

- Eirini, Ranger/Cleric, half-elf, NG

STR: 18/89
DEX: 18
CON: 18
INT: 10
WIS: 18
CHA: 8

- Alexandra, Fighter/Mage, half-elf, NG

STR: 10
DEX: 18
CON: 16
INT: 18
WIS: 18
CHA: 8

- Rea, Blade, human, NG

STR: 18
DEX: 18
CON: 16
INT: 18
WIS: 10
CHA: 15

And my Kensai/Thief, human, NG (after a virtual trip through BG1 with Shadow Keeper)

STR: 19
DEX: 19
CON: 19
INT: 12
WIS: 13
CHA: 18

I decided to have a fighter/mage instead of a pure spell-caster (sorcerer,mage-cleric or wild mage) because I want all 4 characters to have good fighting skills.
I think that the blade will be more than enough as a back-up mage.
I haven't played with a blade before (I know , sorry Scythesong ), so I will have to read first a certain guide ...

If I had a 6-member party my other 2 choises would be :
- A Berserker
- An Archer (or a Kensai with g.mastery in daggers using the Boomerang Dagger early in the game and then the Fire Tooth.I think that he would be more powerful than the Archer, I don't know if anyone used a kensai this way.)

 

Sounds like you have an excellent party. The strong emphasis on fighting ability will make fodder fights much less tedious. Keep us informed of how it works out.

 

I've been thinking of going with a 4 man party, but nothing as powerful as yours.

I was thinking of going with the "icons" from D&D 3e:

Dwarf Fighter
Elf Mage
Human Cleric
Halfling Thief

It could be a lot of fun going with specialists in individual areas, but pretty much stinking at all other aspects.