Summoned Creatures and Seeing Enemies

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Is it just in HoF mode, or does IWD2 always force you to see enemies before your summons will start attacking them? I don't remember, but DAGGON IS IT ANNOYING. After playing BG2 and ToB for a while, having to see the enemies first is a serious handicap! Not only that, but once the summons start attacking, even if the character you used to see the enemies is invisible, all the enemies seem to know exactly where your party is, and proceed to completely ignore the Frost Giant attacking them and proceed to attack your group! This is especially irritating in HoF, of course...

If IWD2 is always like this, I never really thought about it because I had never played HoF prior to recently.

It's just really irritating when the frost giant, salamander, zombie lord, and assorted other high level summons are completely ignored while a goblin horde streams towards your party when they can't even see the character who saw them enabling the summoned creatures to attack!! ASSININE!

Anyway, I'm not asking for anything, I just felt like venting my irritation. I'ma go look for any kind of mod now that changes this, and if there isn't one, THEN I'll be back here asking for something


EDIT-

Now I'm asking. After not seeing anything in the mods or other sections, I tried google for a couple seconds before I realized the near impossibility of finding the right phrase to search for... do I search for "creatures attack without needing characters to see enemy" or some other phrase that's impossible to find in quotes and highly unlikely to find without quotes?

So, If anyone knows any simple way to change this... that'd be cool. If not... oh well. It's good to dream, anyway.

Besides, this thread will have served its purpose with or without netting a fix for this; I got to let out my frustration.

[ June 04, 2007, 01:51: Message edited by: Shivan ]

 

Your enemies just use their brains and search for the summoner instead of fighting the summons.

I don't think there's a mod which makes enemies as stupid as in BG2 or C&C.

 

I don't recall ever seeing summoned creatures die once the summoner dies. So rather than running to find a mage they shouldn't know exactly where is (which they do), they should probably fight the giant.

But, that aside, how does a goblin warrior recognize the difference between a summoned frost giant, and one that's just pissed off and wants to crush goblins? And aside from that, how do they know where my group is, or even that there is a group, if the character that sees them is invisible? And Why oh Why is it necessary to be actively seeing the them before the summons can attack? Surely "Go kill the goblins" is a simple enough command for a mage to impart?

No, I stand by my accusation of assininity. And by my making up of a word.

 

When a summon dies the summoner can just resummon one and summoned creatures also disappear when their summoning time is over.
You probably won't ignore the summoner in the final fight and fight the summons he respawns instead either.

About being able to identify the summons as summons:
- monsters of different species usually rather kill each other instead of teaming up to fight little goblins and they don't appear out of thin air
- you summoned in the same area, mighty magic is not free of sound or other special effects
- intelligent creatures will surely act differently if they are summoned and controlled by magic
- goblins can communicate, so only one of the horde has to recognize the summons, only one has to see, hear,smell,... your party
- tracking (even stupid animals can do this)

To avoid encouraging the player to use this cheesy tactic often abused in BG2 and become bored.
Is it really that fun to have your party stay in a corner of the map, summoning and waiting for hours while the summoned creatures clear the area, invisible in the fog of war ?

Just "Go kill the goblins" doesn't work. You have to tell what goblins are (to summons who never have seen a Goblin before) and at which location out of sight they are.
Summons are monsters with a controlled and therefore crippled mind, not smart human mercenaries who can act on their own.

 

It's pointless to bother arguing how right I am that the goblins should not simply ignore the summons, so instead I'll just reiterate the point you've yet to touch-

The invisible character letting the summons attack, and the horde still somehow knowing exactly where the party is and still completely ignoring the summons.

I guess, in the end, my point boils down to my opinion that although IWD2 has the better character creation (being from a different version of D&D I guess), BG2 had the better gameplay.

Oh well.


- also, Yes. Yes, it is fun to send a mob of creatures to slay the enemy, even if I can't always see them, though usually I'll send up an invisible creature to watch the slaughter. Sometimes I want a break from controlling 6 characters and just want to see a few cool creatures rampage among lesser creatures.

Also, summoning a Gelugon just out of the mage's visual range of the enemy, you'd think a demon at least wouldn't wait for your group to see the enemy. And yet it does wait. Fancy that.

 

I've just tested the summon+invisible character combination and the enemies killed the summons first before they searched for the visible character.
So either your goblins had a special script or HoF monsters are smarter.

Unlike you I prefer the IWD2 gameplay, I prefer the IWD2 monster AI over the stupid and easily abuseable BG2 version. The changes which were made are rather refreshing.

PS: For watching your summons fighting your enemies safely you only need one level3 spell, invisibility sphere. (I never bothered to use it.)

 

Yeah... it kinda makes me wish I hadn't rolled my mage as a Necromancer

Too bad none of the mage kits only disallow divination... Identify is only useful until your mage has good arcana (or whoever), and clerics can show invisible guys... hehe

And yeah, it probably is just HoF making the goblins a bit smarter. Oh well... guess I'll have to settle for turning my party into an army of 6.