Tales from the Malazan Book of the Fallen

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As mentioned elsewhere, I am in the middle of reading Stephen Erikson’s Malazan books. They are quite good but they are hard work and I am struggling to understand a lot of what is going on. Examples of questions that I have include:

- what is an ‘ascendant’?
- how does one become an ascendant?
- what is an Azath?
- What is the Deck of Dragons?
- If the Deck of Dragons is actually a deck of cards, and the deck keeps changing, how does everyone keep their decks up to date?
- What is a warren?
- What is a Tiste Andii? Is it like an elf?

If anyone (i.e. Joacquin) can shed some light on any of this, without providing too many spoilers, that would be appreciated.

 

Quick answer: I dont know.

Long answer:

Ascendant: Person, of any race, who have amassed enough power through various means to be able to claim divine status. Power alone doesnt seem to be enough, it seems possible to gain ascendancy through a myriad of means. The universe of the Malazans seems to be governed by rules of which we havent really got a good explanation of, nor do I think we ever will. Looking at the ascendants in the series it seems that you can get a chance to ascend if you get really good at something, do some great deed or just happen to be at the right place at the right time.

The houses of Azath are somekind of living tree houses who in my interpretation seems to be a personification of order. These houses seems to me try to enforce order on chaos and imprison dangerous beings who threathen the order. People who stay within houses of the Azath gain longevity and probably other perks as well. I kinda see them as the foundation on which the ascendants and gods play their game. If the deck of the dragon are the cards then the houses of Azath are the table on which the game is played. Ooh, nice metaphor, dont know if it is correct.

The deck of dragons is both the pantheon of Erikson's world and a tool for soothsaying like the tarot cards in our world. It is all very fuzzy. I think you are supposed to get a card when you ascend and are thus bound by the rules of the deck. The deck has various houses which is explained in the back of each book. As for the changing I have no idea, I have given it some thought myself. There are some paragraphs in the books which might shed some light on it, but then again maybe not. I have read about one card being introduced in the deck and it was commissioned by the ascendant himself from an artist and then spread by word of mouth if I understood it correctly. Another time a large table just changed into a large card with picture and everything. I think the spreading is just done through rumour and word of mouth. Those who can truly read the deck probably senses that there have been a new addition as well and then tries to figure out what it is.

Warrens seems to be other dimensions from which power can be drawn. Some are whole worlds and others are just great voids or a really big fire.

The Tiste Andii are the first children of Mother Dark (nothingness?), the first beings created in the universe according to their mythology. Two other people were also created around the same time, the Tiste Edur and the Tiste Somethingsomething. The Andii were created purely from darkness, the Edur from shadow and the other from light. As I have understood these three people are kinda like black elves, grey elves and white elves. The Andii and Edur arrived at the Malazan world hundreds of thousands of years ago with plans of conquest or fleeing from a greater enemy depending on who you ask. This was during the time of the K'Chain Chemalle, the lizard people and the Tiste people eradicated the last of the K'Chain Chemalle but to an enourmos cost and their plans of dominating their new world came to naught. The Edur also turned on their Andii brothers and slaughtered almost all of them. The Tiste eradication of the K'Chain Chemalle opened up for the domination of the Jaghut, Forkrul Assail and the T'lan Imass. The flying mountain Rake and the other Andii fly around in is an old K'Chain Chemalle city.

To put it shortly, the Tiste Andii are not native to the world, they are from another place, space travelers if you will.

If pressed I will personally stick to my short answer.
There are some spoilers here but not real story spoilers.

 

Wow, you're like some sort of Erikson guru, Joacquin. That helped clear a few things up, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who is a bit hazy on this stuff.

 

First off, just how far are you in the series?

1. It hasn't really been made clear just what an ascendent actually is. One of the common themes is that the are all pretty much very powerful beings. It could be that ascendency is a stepping stone on the way to godhood, but though I can't really say way, I don't believe that's quite right. Erikson said in an interview that "All gods are ascendents, but not all ascendents are gods."

2. Erikson also said something close to "Ascending is when you pay for it, and pay for it well." I don't really remember the exact quote but I believe that's pretty close. I believe that when he says pay for it well it's like when Treach dies, or the emperor and dancer are assassinated (or nearly assassinated). But people such as Gesler and company are on the verge of ascendency and all they really did was travel through a warren of fire and are so far they haven't shown any really astonishing talents except for their strength.

Also, Baruk says to Rake that "There are many paths to ascendency, some more subtle than others." There seem to be a rather large amount of ways to ascend and none of them seem to be all the clear.

3. As to the Azath it's again not really clear what exactly they are. I am going to disagree with Joacqin here and say that I believe that the Azath is more concerned with balance than as just a force for order. In GotM it was said that they arise where unchained power threatens life. Though what the Azath does with his power other than just imprison it is unknown. I believe it was said the Tremorlor House also anchors a shattered warren to stop it from drifting away as well as imprisoning powerful beings. They are served by the Nameless ones, but again it's not really clear just what they really do for the Azath.

It also seems that the Azath is some how linked to orginally the different Holds, and now to the Houses, also they are linked to each other and to the Deck of Dragons. Paran can travel through any card of the deck of dragons that ever existed, and it seems he can also travel to the houses (if only in spirit so far).

4. The Deck of Dragons is another thing that really isn't discribed all that well. Like Joacqin said, it's a method for soothsaying and also it seems to show the different positions in the different houses and with unaligned positions. Many of the positions in the houses seem to be temporary. Whiskeyjack at one point was the Mason for High House Death in GotM. Some ascendents seem to always hold the same position such as Hood as King of High House Death or Rake as the Knight of High House Dark.

When the deck is used for soothsaying I'm not really convinced that it actually shows the future, or if it just shows what the various acendents involved in whatever is happening are doing, ie. who is opposing how and whatnot.

Also the deck only seems to show the houses that are active. Before Shadowthrone reawoke High House Shadow it wasn't part of the deck, but the House still existed. After Shadowthrone ascended and High House Shadow became active again the cards appeared in the deck.

5. I'm not really sure how people would keep their decks up to date. I'd assume that anyone with a real talent for the deck would sense that there are new cards and would somehow figure out what it is. It could be that someone who is really sensitive to the flucuations within the deck would just wake up and say "hey! there's a new card!" and just somehow know how to draw it.

6. Warrens seem to be either the paths of magic, or even other worlds. I'm not really sure how this works. As I'm sure you've noticed Erikson likes to keep things vague. I like to believe they are a bit like parallel dimensions that mirror how the world could be (or was).

7. Going with Joacqin on this one.

Okay, I just wrote that while recovering from a birthday celebration... if anything is unclear (or makes absolutely no sense... a real possiblilty) feel free to ask for more clarification.

 

I'm in the middle of struggling through 'Memories of Ice' at the moment. I'm having trouble keeping track of who people like Treach and Lady Envy are and what the heck is happening with Paran and Toc. Plus, this book seems to introduce so many new races that also confuse the issue for me.

Despite my continual confusion, I am really enjoying these books (if that makes any sense).

 

The books are extremely enjoyable, partly because it is impossible to keep track of everyone and everything that is going on. This ignorance spurs interest in me and makes me want to find out what is going on.

I actually tried to describe the concepts of ascendancy in a recent university paper I wrote on swearing in contemporary fantasy literature where one of the samples used in the study was taken from Gardens of the Moon. My very brief explanation in the study went like this:

The system governing Erikson's universe seems to be at least as complicated and complex as the physics which are governing our world and I wonder if Erikson himself has really defined the parametres of the system he created. The books lend themselves extremely well for re-reading though as there are lots and lots of things you miss on the first readings.

As for Treach and Lady Envy you will find out what there is to find out during the course of the books and that isnt very much.

I have one question myself for Avarahtar though, was there a house of war or summer or somesuch? A house where Fener was king? I dont remember seeing any mention of it in the appendixes nor in the books themselves and Fener and Hood seems to be the most widely recogniced goods who have been around for the longest time and Hood has his house of death but is there a house of war or somesuch for Fener and Treach?

 

I do not recall there ever being a mention of Fener being associated with any individual house and he is not listed in the glosseries at the end of any of the books as being a part of the Deck of Dragons. Now I have several thoughts for this.

1. The houses in the Deck of Dragons are all called the "High Houses" and so it would follow that there would be "Low Houses" or maybe even a heirarchy of different house tiers. Maybe Fener is the ruler of a Low House, one associated with High House Death maybe.

2. Fener is actually part of another High House but not the King of the the house.

There is one quote that may apply, it's from MoI after Quick Ben's first communication with the Grey Swords:

Now this doesn't really say whether the cult of Fener is it's own House or what. Any thoughts?

 

Yeah, but who decides what the Houses are going to be and what they are going to be called?

It's not surprising to read that Erikson is an archaeologist. Just look at his description of the history of Capustan's architecture to see that this guy has a real love of how civilisations evolve over time.

Are there only 3 people on these Boards who have read these books?

 

Okay Harbourboy, what I'm going to say now is based off stuff from Memories of Ice and since you said you were in the middle, I'll try to keep to the front of the book and the last place I'll quote from is page 350 in the mass production paperback.


It could be Paran now.... He's the Master of the Deck now anyway and I believe it was implied if not said outright when he travelled to the Azath House and talked with Raest that it was the Azath that choose him to be the Master. On page 350 when the Crippled God is talking to Gethol he says:

While we know that the no one can control part is wrong, but what about the "its maker is dust" part? At some point someone made the deck and they would have chosen how it works.... But who would have the ability to set constraints on the Gods themselves? Also, if Fener is as old and powerful as he is made out to be, why would he not have a prominent position in the Deck of Cards such as Hood as as King of High House Death?

Okay, now that tangeant is over, back to the main point. If the Azath choose Paran as the Master it would stand to reason that the Azath also choose the Maker of the Deck and so would that make the Azath itself the creator? We have no idea just how old the Azath are, but we do know that they have existed since before the Houses arose, and maybe even before the Holds. So would the Azath have chosen (if they are indeed behind the Maker of the Deck) to organize the Gods into Houses in a reflection of the Azath houses themselves?

And as to the statement that the maker is dust, that would imply that the Maker of the Deck is dead.... or perhaps an Imass, but what do the Imass know of Houses or even Holds?
Another idea is that it could have been K'rul who created the Deck... He did disappear into Chaos long ago and was thought lost.

Alright, done rambling now.

 

I've read the first one and started on the second. Problem is that, just like a song of ice and fire, I'll have to re-read it because of the sheer volume of characters and cities/landscapes etc.

Thing is I find it too vague at points. Warrens/Ascendants, how to interpret these things that do not exist. I generally have no problem imagining fantasy, but this goes to far concerning godlike features and magic. I sometimes have the same problem with the Discworld but that one is so funny it works. I can't say I feel the same about Erikson.

 

K'rul is a good bet, it was he who created the warrens and put a system on magic. It would kinda make sense if he would have created the deck as well. The Crippled god may well have thought him dust.

I really like your reasoning around the Azath, your explanation actually fits my metaphor of the Azath as the playing table better than my own explanation.

That quote about the mortal sword implies to me that Fener must have been in a house, and he most probably must be king. Something that struck me now is that it might be the beast hold? Fener was a boar after all, the beast hold might have been inactive but it was never gone. It could be possible for Fener to have been king of an inactive hold/house and still be part of the game.

 

I'm just up to the bit where K'Rul says that the warrens are his veins. Not sure that makes any sense to me at all.

 

As I understand it the warrens and the universe is his body in a way. He incorporated the warren in himself and thus inserted order on them and made them usable. K'Rul seems to be one, if not the first, god/ascendant especially since there seems to be some debate as to whether Mother Dark is a being or just the darkness that was before.

 

Harbourboy, joacqin's explanation pretty much matches what I thought it meant. K'rul didn't actually make the warrens, they always existed but in a much more primative fashion. He just organized them and made it so that they were more accessible to humans and other beings.


When the Elder Gods confronted Kallor in the prologue of Memories of Ice Kallor calls K'rul "Opener of the Paths." To me this implies that the paths were there and that K'rul just opened them up for everyone to use.

The warren that Fanderay would have fled too following the summoning of the Crippled God Togg thinks of as old compared to the warrens that the elder Gods used. So it seems that some warrens were accessible to certain beings BEFORE K'rul brought order to them and that perhaps he didn't even bother (or couldn't) change the oldest warrens.

On a side note, do you think it's possible that K'rul's organizing of the warrens is what brought about the creation of the Tiste Andii and subsequently the other Tiste races?


Joacqin, Fener could have been in a house, but was just not listed in the appendix as being in one... though I believe that the positions of King of High House Light, High House Life, and High House Dark are not listed. In addition I don't believe Fener is ever mentioned as occupying any throne, and I get the impression that there are quite a few thrones that are currently unoccupied. The true Throne of Shadow, the First Throne of the T'lan Imass, the Beast Throne, etc.

Memory of Ice Spoilers!


As to the holds, it is possible that he was in the Beast Hold. But remember that the Beast Throne was empty until Togg and Fanderay reoccupied it. So even if he was part of that particular hold he wasn't the king of it... plus the Beast Hold is really really old... I believe it was said that Togg and Fanderay are OLD gods, predating even the elder Gods.

Another to consider is that is a hold or house not active unless there is someone sitting on the throne? The House of Shadows was inactive until Shadowthrone sat on it and we know the Rope took over the position of Assassin... but were the other positions all empty as well or were they filled but because nobody sat on the throne the whole house was considered inactive?

On a side note, the position of the preeminent God of War is now shared between Treach, Togg and Fanderay. The Tiger of Summer and the Wolves of Winter... Nice symmetry there... and all the Gods of War seem to be animal aspected, could all be from the same Hold.

 

Wow - I'm just reading about the siege of Capustan. Awesome stuff. This book seriously rocks. How cool are the Grey Swords?

 

Very cool. I have still not completely worked out their command structure.

 

Hmm, I'm now reading about all this Fener vs Treach business. I really don't understand the explanation of how Fener got "descended" or how Treach got "ascended". And as for what the Shield Anvil's divine role is...zoom.. right over my head.

Quick Ben is finally getting some good stuff to do though, after spending ages sitting on the sidelines.

 

How I understand it and as much as I think there is to understand is that Fener got sucked down to the material plane or somesuch by Heboric, how he then dies there and if he dies I have no idea. Trake upon his death by the hands of the K'ell Hunters sprouted wings and flew to heaven just because he was needed I reckon. Even before this super ascension was Trake the tiger of summer and Fener was the boar of summer, they kinda overlapped each other.

 

Oh! Heboric! I didn't make that connection. But what is / was Trake? A man or a tiger?

Wow, this battle at Coral is awesome (but tragic)! Still don't understand what Silverfox is though.

 

Trake was a soultaken (weretiger in dnd terms) from the first Empire (human), one of the few who survived some cataclysmic event which devastated the empire.

Silferfox is a lot of things, but mostly she is a live T'lan Imass with a soul melded together by Tattersail and a few others. She as everything else is darn fuzzy.