The EU - too far too fast?

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I'm stealing from another forum I like because, well, I want to hear more about it:

and one reply I thought interesting:

The site referenced in the quote is here:
http://www.dgap.org/english/tip/tip4/fischer120500.html

So...?

 

It'll take a severe crisis to pull-off the EU stuff. There's so many different ones to choose from, I don't know what's more probable.

Beer shortage?

 

The EU is a shaky project indeed but I think it is going to be pulled off, going to take time though. One of the main reasons for my belief in that is that for example here in Sweden, the politicians most strongly opposed to joining the EMU and who headed the no campaign before our recent referendum now flinch at the mention of exiting the EU, something they have seen as one of their main goals in the past. The people who were against EU in the past are now pro, even if they are more hesitant than those that always were pro. I just think it takes time for people to get used to the idea and grasp the bigger picture. I think the EU is a great idea and one quite large step towards a world where it doesnt matter which nationality you have, heck a world where nationality and the old nations doesnt matter at all. Breaking free of the view that we are Swedes, Germans, Poles, Serbs, Basque, Irish and all see us as humans, even if there in this case is the middle stop of seeing us as European. There are many many bumps on the road but I think it is going to be hard to stop the ball when it has got rolling, especially in todays internet integrated world.

 

Ex pluribus unum. And pluribus will remain. The continent has always profited from it's different cultures. And so it will remain. On the other hand, the nation-state is short lived concept which has outlived it's usefuleness in many areas. The trouble now is, there are too many problems. The demographics which will cause hevoc, the huge changes in the economical structure. Nearly every country has a strong anti-immigration party, from the British BNP to the Austrian FPÖ, sometimes directed versus the eastern countries. The eastern countries have a lot of potential, but haven't taken off yet. This inter-domestic issues make the whole thing to a huge tohuwabohu, while there is not yet a consensus, on how the strucuture of the "federacy" exactly should look like. Not to say that it's a huge emotional leap to change the currency.

Beer, indeed, is one of those things that hold the whole thing together. Actually, the consequences for beer prices any dismantling of the EU would have, scare any politican from going a step to far in this direction, eventhough they gain voters with walking that line. Beer is intra-European produced and sold.

 

A european constitution offers advantages - atm europe is confusing to analyse to say the least - making it more transparent would certainly ease acceptance among it's 'citizens'. Basically it has been much said about it but actually it doesn't even offer that much new - except for the clearer division of powers and restructuring of the relationships between parliament and commission and council (which is indeed quite an evolution).

The rules about union citizenship and the according rights have been renumbered but are nothing new - the same applies to the rules for the free market, currency policy, traffic, tarifs and subsidies as well as legal transformation and cooperation, security and immigration. The new draft compiles the rules from both EU and EC - MixMasterMax above is quite right.

The really interesting part starts in Title VI. It introduces majority votes and that is both risk and blessing. Risk because even the mighty three - Germany, France and the UK - could be overruled in a "uprising of the dwarfs", a blessing because it offers a way to deal with the enlarged EC, and perhaps even with the amount of french agriculture subsidies
I wouldn't overestimate this - true diplomats try to find a consensus anyway - in order to avoid isolating or entroubling other members. But it is an important step.

The draft also strengthens the power of the european parliament - probably as a response to this - and IMO that is a very sensible thing. Giving powers to a parliament is a nice thing, but it necessiates a european discourse - and as it is now only few people are informed about what's going on in their own parliaments, let alone in Bruxelles.
Another disadvantage is the disparity in the "weight" of the mandate. So a german MP would represent more citizens than one from Portugal while having the same voting weight ... there should clearly be a factor to represent economic strength and population - but that will, as it has in the past, face resistance from the minors. This is a key issue here.

As a result of the enlargement the EU *needs* a reform and I share the concern above that otherwise paralysation would be a genuine risk.
So if they call this reform consitution I couldn't care less - as long as it works.

I trace the lack of popular support to lack of information. It isn't all that new and it isn't even so that Bruxelles will grab more power as it already has - it's a restructuring at the top. It will force the core members to cooperate more closely that they do already to be able to see their interests reflected - and that is good news.

The european constitution is a bold undertaking but by no means it represents what will come out in the end. Mind it's still a draft. There will be changes and it is interesting to see who wants what - and to conclude why. I'm optimistic however.

And being from Cologne a beer shortage is the last thing I fear ...

 

Yes, Beer Is Good.

I assume from what I have heard, and what I have read here, that all European nations are a part of the EU, if so then this is an excellent step.
If people will think about the consequences before, rather than after, their own agendas, then it is definately great, and while I balk at the constrainment of a ruling body I think that a constitution if laid out and followed thoughtfully, would also be a great thing. An equal minded (dare I say global) council that has an absolute scope, might even reduce govermental control on a local level, and at least be able to set out the guide-lines in a more effecive way than is current elsewhere (here anyway) until people learn to also act with mindfulness. I can see ample posibilty for such a thing to flourish well within an allready (relatively) old and close-nit area such as Europe.

This is fantastic for Europe, and I have always viewed many countries therein as being closer to rejecting the foolishness that tries to pervade our legal and political structures. Let us hope that it does not deteriorate into a charde like the UN, or some capitalist dictator like the WTO. Perhaps the Asian and Middle-Eastern nations will also form their own Unions (if only to oppose threats from overseas), for when power is divided and consolidated simultaneously in such a way people tend to open themselves up to greater scopes, and cease bickering amongst themselves. This emergence of a Triad of Unions may well indeed balance out the current turmoil arising in our modern landscape, if only as an equalising of tensions.

As for my own nation, I would hope for entrance one day into such a Union, until such things are no-longer necesary. Things could be much worse, but I fear we are falling ever-rapidly, for which we have no excuse. I do not hold out much hope left for us at all.