The great Lord of the Rings topic (for all question and answers)

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Hi all. Since the Fellowship of the Ring Movie is out, lots of topics concerning this movie (and what will follow next 2 years), the book Lord of the Rings and other works of Tolkien are opened here. To prevent that a thousand LoTR-topics are opened, it seemed a good idea to start one general topic for all questions about the books of Tolkien and the movie.

I'll also start with a question:

Bilbo put on the ring at the long expected party, laughed about the embarassed faces, walked back home and took of the ring. Ok... Sauron was already strong at that moment... but about 30 years later, in the prancing pony, Frodo "accidently" takes on the ring and everything seems to change, everything he sees is blurred, he can hardly see normal... and the Ringwraiths (that already existed when Bilbo put on the ring) suddenly now know where Frodo should be... Tolkien never described that the ring would do that, at first sight, the ring didn't seem to affect the bearer, exept that he gained could hear better. Does anyone has a good reason for this?

 

Well, just as so many things in the movie, it was probably put in to make the a bit more spectacular. They also put in somethings to make the story easier.

But I know what your meaning Headbanger. The ringwraiths should know where Bilbo was as soon as he put on the real and not have to force it out of Gollum.

[This message has been edited by Silverblade (edited January 15, 2002).]

 

Sorry headbanger, a refrence to what the world seems like when a person uses the ring is mentioned in the Two Towers. If you look into the Two Towers where Sam uses the ring, it will descirbe how the world changes into a gray dream world just like how the movie shows it. So the movie pulls information from the other book so they correctly describe what the ring does.
(never post while eating, bad combo)
[This message has been edited by Thorin (edited January 15, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Thorin (edited January 15, 2002).]

 

Gandalf has a stash of his wonderstaffs. Since he looses it on the tower but has a brand new lookalike back in the elven city. Why doesn't he bring a handfull of them on their journey?


Why don't they use that freaking kingsized eagle and fly to the vulcano with the ring? Flying is for wuzzies or what?

[This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited January 15, 2002).]

 

Archangel, would the eagle be able to fly? The ring became very heavy when close to morodr. And I think the eagles would be hunted by Nazgul and not survive above Sauron's own realm.

Gandalf was a wizard. Maybe he can use something to let his staff come back to him. Or maybe he had more staves indeed.

Sam saw the world grey but he still could see enough, much more then Frodo was able to see in the movie. And Bilbo? He never saw blurry.. only became invisible without knowing it. Maybe it's because Sauron was stronger and sam was close to Mordor... that the ring has much power on him... but nowhere is described that the world had such influence on Frodo in this part of the story.

 

It is me and friends belief that the reason the place was blurred while frodo had his ring on was that it was under strong influence of the eye therefore making it a hellish experience. No references were made to the eye when bilbo had it on so there you go.

 

Question #1:
Is it possible to spare this forum of more and more spam topics about LOTR?

The optimistic answer to #1:
Yes, when new Titanic gets filmed.

The real answer to #1:
Yes, when SP disappears from the net.




Question #2:
Is it possible to avoid #1 by opening the forum especially for LOTR?

The optimistic answer #2:
Yes, yes, yes and yes again.

The real answer #2:
Nah. Noone reads the FAQ - so noone would post about LOTR in that possible forum but again: in Whatnots.

[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited January 15, 2002).]

 

I think Sauron believed the ring to be destroyed at the time Bilbo used it, so he didn't bend his strength toward it's recovery. Once Sauron captured Gollum, he realized that the ONe Ring had been found...Thereafter he bent his will and that of his servants towards finding and recovering the Ring.

That's why the perception is different in the two books. How about that for an explanation?

 

Extremist:

Question #1:
Is it possible to spare this forum of more and more spam topics about LOTR?

As I already told, this is a trial to make ONE topic about Lord of the Rings where everybody that has questions or marks about LoTR and Tolkiens other works can post them, so there will be not 100 different topics about it but so it will all be in one topic. This makes that answers on questions can be found easily, and also to prevent that people are annoyed by so many topics about one thing. Now it seems one more topic... maybe soon it will be the only one. I do it to help you, not to annoy you

To the rest:

The point is not that there is no explanation for this, it is that Tolkien never tells that Frodo couldn't see normal in the Prouncing Pony. Jackson made that part by himself. Maybe all would be a littlebit more vague but not so bad like in the movie.

 

LOL, Headbanger. Unless the ring weighs more than several human beeings and the Nazgul gets flying horses, it is obvious that the Eagle will be enough. But then the wise Tolkien wouldn't have a story would he.

I am looking forward to seeing why it is better that two halflings, walking slowly through a landscape were evil roams the ground, is a better solution. I can't wait! "Two towers". Wooohooo.

[This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited January 15, 2002).]

 

I thought the same when, towards the end of Book 3 'the windlord' flys Frodo & Sam out of Mordor.
The answer is obvious: it would have been a very short book, no Balrog, no Ents, no Shelob .... nuff said?

 

Well, they were supposed to get into Mordor and destroy the ring unnoticed. An eagle soaring above the land of darkness would surely have attracted unwanted attention.

 

Assuming that the Eagles would stand a good chance of beating the Nazgûl (not certain, but possible), the main problem is that Sauron would notice them, and become aware of what the Free Peoples were trying to do. A simple response would be to get all the Orcs of Mordor to shoot at the Eagles; more useful would be to get all his crack troops and go to Orodruin itself. To destroy the Ring, Frodo wouldn't be able to drop it into the volcano from the air - there would be too much chance of missing, and anyway it is stated that the Ring must be destroyed in the Crack of Doom, which is accessed through an underground passageway. So all Sauron would need to do would be to go there, wait, hold out his hand and say "Thank you". OTOH, a lift to an unmapped, unguarded pass in the mountains near Orodruin might be more useful
As for the effect of the Ring, I think that the proximity of Sauron and his power has a great effect. It's unlikely that it always had the effect of making everything blurry, otherwise Bilbo wouldn't have been able to use it so effectively in The Hobbit. Also when Frodo put the Ring on on Amon Hen his vision was increased: he could see clearly for vast distances, something which was only partly due to the hill he was standing on. He had no problem fleeing from Boromir, and then getting back to the boats through rocky, wooded terrain. So I think that in Bree and on Weathertop it's uncertain that there should have been such obvious visual effects, unless the proximity of the Nazgûl changed matters (though it shouldn't, as they have no power to command the Ring or its powers).

 

Thx Maldir. I have never read the books so your post clears a lot .

What happens in the books then? Is Saurun (as any fictional badguy has to do) scattering his troops across the country making his only vunerable spot, crack of doom, vunerable?

It is a code Saurun is bound to follow.

Any badguy must make an unnecessarily complicated plan which is escapable by impossible means which somehow always are available to the good guys(if not, the badguy must employ these means himself out of clumsyness or forgetfulness).

[This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited January 16, 2002).]

 

Ok, Sauron did not notice that Bilbo had found the ring because he was spending most of his time playing BG2 trying to finish the Jaheira romance. This took him nearly 60 years before he gave up and started looking for the ring again.

 

Not quite, Archangel (spoilers ahead if you haven't read books 2 or 3). Sauron is indeed pushing his forces out - mostly towards Gondor, but also towards the other Free Peoples (the dwarves in the Lonely Mountain, and the elves in Mirkwood, are invaded about this time). His goal is to break down resistance quickly, before the new Ringbearer should use the power of the Ring to form opposition to him. Someone like Aragorn or Gandalf, or even the Steward of Gondor, could be a great foe to Sauron if he were given the time to marshal forces using the Ring's power. Sauron doesn't suspect that his enemies might actually want to destroy the Ring, rather than use it for themselves - so he isn't particularly defending Mordor, and the Cracks of Doom. Even so, Mordor is full of enemy soldiers, and is not easy for anyone to enter. If Sauron gets any idea what the Fellowship is trying to do, he can and will defend the Mountain so it is unapproachable. Which is why only a small company were chosen in Rivendell, and why it is less of a problem that Frodo and Sam have left the Fellowship - there is even less for Sauron to notice.

 

Spoilers:

Indeed. Frodo and Sam where able to reach Mount Doom for most of Sauron's troops had left Mordor short before they arrived, to fight in the battle against Gondor. Still they encountered Orcs in Mordor, but for the Hobbits where dressed like orcs they couldn't be found.

Before that very moment, Mordor was well protected, even at the air. Magic could fell Eagles and above Sauron's own land, the Eagles would have had no chance to win from the Nazgul, not above the black vile land where Sauron ruled.

Secondly, don't forget that the ring had it's own will also. So what would have happened when the eagles had thrown in in Mount Doom?

As Third, Frodo didn't want to throw the ring in Mount Doom, also not when he was brought to that place through air I think.

(we are stuck to this discussion, when others have different questions, they can also be post here!)

 

Sure, I'll let the eagle rest untill I have seen Two Towers

The dwarf tries to split the ring with his axe and it scatters. The next scene his axe is complete again. Some axe, huh? or what happened. Two different dwarves?

*wonders if he should see the movie a second time, it was amazing afterall*

 

Like any dwarven warrior worth his beard, he undoubtedly prepares for the eventuality of damaging his axe in combat by carrying a spare.

 

He does carry several axes. He always seems to be walking with a single bladed one, and fighting with a dual bladed one.