The Half-Blood Prince *spoilers*

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So what do you think of it? (I can hardly believe I'm the first to post.)

I thought it was uneven, and I hope her great success isn't spoiling Rowling. There were marvelous chapters, but other chapters seemed perfunctory. Why didn't Rowling give more space to the Dark Arts classes? I kept waiting for more, after the initial confrontation, but it never came. (Sorry if I'm a bit vague, but I don't want to include spoilers.) The scene in the cave, though moderately chilling, was less intense than it should've been. There seemed to be a general lessening of intensity throughout the book. The final chapters were magnificent, Rowling at her best, and I thought the romances very well realized. What's your opinion?

[ July 29, 2005, 06:53: Message edited by: Cernak ]

 

I can't believe so many people are in such a rush to read it so quickly. Hardback books are far too expensive for me, so I will wait until it appears in the library or I can borrow it from someone else.

 

Is this a spoiler thread? If it is, can you indicate so? Because I want to rant.

 

If you want to rant, please do. Just put

Spoiler

at the head of your post.

 

Spoiler

It was, in my opinion, very predictable. Harry+Ginny and Ron+hermione were obviously going to happen, and as for Dumbledore.. pfft. well, I'd bet 100 to 1 that she finds some way for Dumbledore to mentor Harry from beyond the grave. Like Obi-wan with Luke in Star Wars. And while we're on the subject of "borrowing" content, the Horcruxes are taken straight from LOTR and I have no idea why she bothered to rename the zombies Inferi.

Apart from all that, it was quite good. LOL.

 

I assume you're refering to Sauron not dying because of his ring?

 

I'll post some thoughts now but not before providing a huge spoilers warning. I don't want anyone complaining that I've ruined the book! So...

DO NOT READ ON UNLESS YOU HAVE FINISHED THE BLOODY BOOK!

Right, my immediate reaction was that Dumbledore's killing has to be taken at face value. Snape was able to hoodwink the kind old duffer because he understood that one of Dumbledore's greatest attributes was also his greatest weakness. Remember in Chapter 2 when Snape comments that Dumbledore's weakness is that he has to see the best in everyone? On the other hand, Voldemort doesn't trust anyone and is supposedly the greatest Legilimens ever. I find it more likely that Snape could fool Dumbledore than Voldemort.

But then I have my niggling doubts. First, what can we make of the hushed conversation between Dumbledore and Snape in which Snape confesses that he doesn't feel he can go on anymore? What had Dumbledore asked him to do? Is it somehow linked to the pleading part you mention? Was he pleading for his life, or pleading Snape to carry out something that was pre-agreed? What is the significance of the unbreakable vow Snape made with Narcissa and Bellatrix? Why would he risk everything for Draco?

There's definitely a possibility that Snape and Dumbledore remain in cahoots (even though the latter is dead) and there's another twist to come. Dumbledore, we know from the book, was getting old and losing his sharpness. His hand had been damaged beyond repair. Perhaps he felt that getting Snape to kill him would eradicate any doubt (in the mind of Death Eaters) than Snape was on their side, thus allowing Snape to stay close to Voldemort, perhaps to help Harry at a later time? It allowed Snape to fulfil a role that not even Dumbledore could?

Why was Snape so enraged at being called a 'coward' by Harry. This man barely shows the slightest trace of emotion for six books, yet became hysterical when called a coward. Was it because he'd just done the hardest thing he'd ever had to do: kill the one man who always trusted him (on that man's orders) because it was for a greater good?

Too many questions...

One final thought: Taking the book at face value means accepting that Harry has to defeat Snape, Voldemort and all the other Death Eaters, whilst also finding the remaining four Horcruxes, pretty much on his own. Certainly, he no longer has any allies with power equal to Dumbledore's. It seems pretty inconceivable really, unless there's a twist to come....

PS. As you can see, I quite like the Harry Potter books with an enthusiasm verging on the sad .

 

I thought it was better than 5; jk rowlings IMO is suffering from being too popular to be edited, but there was less waffling in this book. I'm with barmy army - I have doubts about whose side Snape is really on... after all, he is in Slytherin. Any means to an end!

 

SPOILERS (yeah, I read it too...)

1) Why I think Dumbledore will be back (a la Obi-Wan, perhaps): the guy's familiar, Fawkes, is a phoenix, which as we know from an earlier book, dies and is reborn in flames. What better rebirth image is that? During the funeral, Dumbledore's body disappears in flames, and Potter thinks for a moment he sees a pheonix in the flames. Plus, the "good guys" are part of the Order of the Phoenix; how many more hints do we need that some kind of rebirth will happen? And wouldn't this function well as a foil to Voldemort's immortality?

2) Potter is a Horcrux. Seems to make sense. Also, only one can live in the end...

3) Snape is still in consort with Dumbledore's plan, and will help Potter kill Voldemort in book 7. Slytherin isn't necessarily the "evil" house, but rather performs a vital function in maintaining the good. Exactly how prepared is anyone from the other houses to being a double agent or spy? Potter and the other Gryfindors are frankly sh*te when it comes to subtlety or underhandedness.

4) Potter and Draco will have to do something involving trusting eachother and working together in book 7.

5) Snape's relationship with James Potter and Lily will be important to book 7, especially Lily, who we now know was a prodigy in potions like Snape.

6) R.A.B. is Regulus Black, and 12 Grimauld will be an important location in book 7.

 

My wife is convinced Snape will flop onto the Good side in the end, for intuitive reasons. And she may well be right. The posts by B.A. and Bion are certainly suggestive.

By the way, Bion, great job pegging R.A.B., while most of the rest of us are still saying "Huh?" I'm not so sure about Harry being a Horcrux though; Voldemort was very unhappy being in Harry's body at the end of Book 5.

I'm also wondering what happened to Snapes' book; it's sloppy to just let it drop as Rowling did. Shouldn't Harry go back and get it--insight into the enemy--or decide never to touch it again, now that he knows who it belonged to?

[ July 19, 2005, 06:28: Message edited by: Cernak ]

 

SPOILERS

1) R.A.B. *is* Regulus. Hey, Bion, when did you finish the book and what time zone were you in? I want dibs on the idea.

2) Horcruxes: Voldemort's soul is incompatible with Harry's, as Cernak noticed at the end of Book 5 when Voldemort tried to posess (sp?) Harry. I think that mysterious Horcruxes #5+6 are an artifact of Ravenclaw's, and the snake Nagini.

3) What does everyone think about Fawkes? Did he die with Dumbledore or does he remain to be a symbol to the Order? (I think he's dead.)

4) I think that the way Dumbledore was killed is kind of lame. Anyone agree?

5) I think Harry will leave the book with McGonnagall or the Potions Master, whatsis name.

 

I still like the Harry as Horcrux idea; I could imagine Rowling coming up with some kind of elaborate explanation of how Voldemort's attempt to curse the infant Potter transfered a peice of his soul in to Potter. We already know Potter has some kind of innate connection to Voldemort (the scar, the ability to sense Voldemort's thoughs, the ability to speak Snake, the fact the Hat thought he was Slytherin, even the fact that V couldn't possess Potter; can anyone possess someone who shares the same soul?). And the Horcrux is the only mechanism Rowling has described that could explain someone having a part of someone else's soul. I think Rowling included the snake as a possible Horcrux just to point out that Horcruxes could be living creatures as well as inanimate objects.

An idea that didn't make the cut: perhaps Snape and Potter's mother Lily shared a little bit more than skill with potions:

Snape: I am your father Harry.
Potter: Noooooo!! I'll never join you!

 

@Bion
The connection is Harry's mother's blood and her love. This is explained in the first and second books. Also check out Rowling's website for some rumors like your Snape idea that she popped.

V is now using Occlumency on Harry so that Harry cannot gain access to V's thoughts. V knows that Harry will be wise to what V did before with sending him a dream, so I don't think that V will have anything to do in Harry's mind in Book 7, unless they are dueling.

 

Yeah, I know the "mother's love" thing (and the Snape idea was only a joke!), but that doesn't explain how V was imprinted so deeply into Harry's mind. Again, I would expect some kind of greater explanation of how the "mother's love" thing interacted with V's curse. Another bit of evidence: the prophesy holds that only one of them can survive, and this would also work very well with the idea that Harry has some of V's soul.

 

@Bion: Not really, in fact, its going to be very hard for Harry to defeat Voldemort if he himself is a Horcrux. Being a horcrux would mean that Harry himself contains part of Voldemort's soul, meaning that the Big V can never die unless Harry dies first.

Again, that is in direct contravention with the prophecy which states that to live, Harry has to kill Voldemort...which can never happen if he is a Horcrux.

 

The actual prophecy:...

`The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches. born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies . and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not . and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives . the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies .'

...only mentions 'the other' which leaves me thinking there could be someone else involved.. could it be nevilles big day?!

 

I don't think Harry could be a Horcrux at all.
In both book 5 and 6, Voldemort tried to finish Harry off in the end, if Harry is a Horcrux, and Voldemort indeed had given him a part of his soul, then 1) Why would he want to kill a part of himself, 2) why couldn't he posses Harry in the same way we know he possesses Nagini?
In my eyes it would make no sense at all to willingly give a part of your soul to the only one whom you know could kill you!

I don't think Dumbledore'll be tutoring Harry from beyond the grave in book #7; and if he does, then I'll be greatly disappointed with Rowling. It's just not, well, imaginative enough :-P
Remember, Sirius and how Harry hoped for a way to remain in contact with him from beyond the grave? It is not possible unless Dumbledore had 'chosen' to become a ghost, like nearly-headless Nick told Harry in book #5.

I believe that Harry WILL be on his own (well, with the exception of Ron and Hermione), and that he will have to go search for the answers on his own.

As with the Snape-Dumbledore dilemma, I somewhat believe, or want to believe that he was, partly, acting on the orders of Dumbledore.
1st of all: There is NO way Dumbledore would EVER beg for mercy, and I believe he rather begged Snape to finish something he had been assigned to do. 2nd: In book #4 Snape was very determined on convincing Fudge about the fact that Voldemort was back, and that something had to be done, precautions had to be made. 3rd: As mentioned earlier, Dumbledore really trusted Snape despite the fact that no one else did; and had several times told both Harry and others that he had his reasons to trust him so blindly (And I really think he did). Lastly: Despite the fact that Dumbledore had gotten old, and his reactions had gotten poorer, he still had his sharp brain; very seldom did anything happen without him knowing. Look at the entire Draco situation. Harry mentioned his supicions with Draco to Dumbledore. Dumbledore did, kind of, the same he had done everytime Harry had mentioned his suspicions towards Sanpe to him: He played it down. However, in the ending chapters we finds out, that Dumbledore had indeed known what Draco had been planning from the very beginning. And I also believe he had known about the unbreakable vow. Of course, Harry told him about this, but I don't believe Harry himself was his source of information on that particular point. He knew these things from someone else prior to Harry mentioning it.

No matter how much I despises Snape, I somewhat believe that he really is with the 'good guys' (Or want to believe).

The fact he reacts as he does when called a coward(Snape that is), is either that he is really sorry about what he had to do, or that he has some memories from school (Think 'back to the future' and how whoever, forgot his name, reacts when being called a chicken), or some kind of remorse about having given up Lilly and James to Voldemort, e.g. Harry hid a soft spot.

I enjoyed the book thouroughly, and I'm looking much forward to the 7th and last book. (Wherein I believe we will get much more facts concerning the lilly/james-Snape relationship. Also, as someone else mentioned, I believe Draco will side with Harry, and lastly that Harry will come to a point where Dumbledores lessons will pay off)..

EDIT
'Tarron', the prophecy also sayed that Voldemort would himself mark the boy who could defeat him as his equal. As Dumbledore told Harry in book #5: Voldemort choose Harry, not Neville. Voldemort marked Harry as his equal, thus creating his own bane.

 

Thinking along plotlines and how the characters have developed; why does Dumbledore have to be dead? After all he is the greatest wizard of his day. Surely, it would easy for him to fake his death and disappear without a trace -- not even the most talented wizards would be able to find him (as he proved in a previous book).

From a writing standpoint the characters are fairly well developed. Voldemort is wary to act with Dumbledore present, so would instead continue to build his allies until he is positive he would triumph. This would be devastating to the wizard population -- hundreds would die in the onslaught. However, with Dumbledore out of the way Voldemort may act sooner. His confidence would be his undoing (and perhaps the only chance the wizarding community has against him). This would be especially true if Dumbledore is in hiding and not dead.

Thinking more about this, Rowling could easily conjecture that Dumbledore saw his continued presence as preventing Voldemort from striking early. In dying he is moving the Dark One's plans forward enough to expose a weakness. A weakness which would not be there if Voldemort was anticipating a fight with Dumbledore. In this case Dumbledore's sacrifice would make victory possible (making him a Jesus figure or cultural hero).

 

@ Olimikrig, i agree with you, but the way the prophecy is worded suggests there is more to it than first sight. why is 'the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord...' repeated twice. another thought is the mention about being born as the 7th month dies. Everyone but 3 people took apparition tests, harry, neville and ... draco. could this be a way to re-incorporate draco back into the story.

Even so, i for one want a one on one duel between harry and voldemort. But one thing is bugging me, why is the significance of Harry having his mothers eyes? Could it be to do with his being a descendant of godric gryffindor? any thoughts?

 

@ Tarron: Harrys mother is muggle born. How could she be a descendant of Godric Gryffiindor? However, now you mention it, it may have some significance after all. I do not, though, have any idea as to what it could possibly mean.

Your thoughts on Draco are very interesting. Personally I believe he will have a big significance on the further development of the next book!

As to T2Brunos thoughts on the death of Dumbledore, or rather the lack of it; it makes a lot of sence, but personally I truly believe DUmbledore to be death.

What bugs me the most is the fact that someone had already removed the first Horcrux, and replaced it with this pecular note, and a signature saying: R.A.B.
Has more Horcrux' been replaced? Who is he? What effect will his actions have on the outcome of an eventual final battle in book 7? And finally: WHO IS HE??? argh... I may have to read the bloody books once more. Might read all of them in English this time (a lot of names and such has been altered in the Danish editions, which is quite confusing when having to read the Half-blood prince in english, and when discussing on boards like this :@ ).