The Netherlands has just reached rock bottom... again

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Tragedy

A famous dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was shot down in broad daylight this morning in our capital. Van gogh had an outspoken opinion on several controversial subjects such as the islam.

This is what happens in the country where the right of free speech is or better to say was strongly upheld. This tragedy came to close after the Pim Fortuyn incident two years ago. Pim was a politician with a outspoken opinion on anti-immigration. He was also shot down for speaking out loud subjects we all think about.

Amsterdam is grieving as 'the dam' is filling up with furious dutch right now.

I know sweden had their tragedy a while back when Annah Lind was stabbed to death. It seems it's becoming a sick trend or something.

Are these kind of murders normal day life in your countries or is Holland coming down? What is happening to the world when one cannot voice his opinion any more.

I realise that, with the war in Iraq and the election in america and the starvation and oppression in I don't know how many countries, this may seem a small event but for a while we thought peace had relatively returned to our country. And now this!

Rest in Peace Theo van Gogh

Closing of with a dutch saying which is very appropriate here. I can't translate it because it is for one it wouldn't come over right and two it would get in trouble with some mods even though I hope they won't erase it for not being the english language.

NEDERLAND GAAT NAAR DE KLOTEN!

[ November 02, 2004, 23:42: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

well, atleast the cops got the guy right way, and he got a bullet in the leg to boot

 

Yeah and he'll be out in ten years if it ain't sooner. How's that for justice.

 

Lunatics have always targeted famous and controversial figures. Look at Lennon, Reagan or Warhol. I does however seem like it happens more often nowadays or is it just because similar cases in the past have been forgotten?

 

Well, from I have heard about Van Gogh, it could have been worse, someone not being a jackass could've died.

But still, it's a life of a Human, so I feel sorry for his family. He looked pretty funky on that photo in your link though, quite drugged.

Also, it's Anna Lindh, not Annah Lind

 

van gogh wasn't a jackass, he may come over like one and a drug addict but he was certainly not. He made some good movies and he and very few with him didn't scare away from discussing subjects which need discussing but people are afraid to discuss them.


The biggest problem now is that the guy who shot him is of maroccan background which has been a prickly subject in our country as of late.

 

Related to that, the fact that Mijailovic (the man who stabbed Lindh) was of Yugoslavian descent and that it really hasnt stirred any xenophobic or racist feelings here have made me almost a bit proud.

 

van Gogh's latest movie called Submission was about domestic abuse in muslim families, it showed naked muslims covered in with a tranparent burkha(they aren't really naked then, but you could still see their breasts) and they were covered with anti-feminim texts of the Quran.

He wasn't a jackass, he was just against breaking the law in name of a religion..

 

Jackass or not, I didn't like this fellow at all. You can't say this guy wasn't 'slightly' offensive. I wouldn't miss him at all. I don't say I'm glad he's dead, but to be honest, I don't really care he is.

What I do care about, is why he was murdered. I'm affraid the sh*t will hit the fan soon enough and racial calamities occur.
I'm also affraid that murder will become the solution for dealing with people with a different opinion.

Bad Karma!

 

The really annoying thing is that despite the fact that we are supposed to live in a century where religions do not direct the actions of a man as they used too, these outbrakes of violence for religious reasons remind us all that idiots exist everywhere and they can wear different kind of robes to hide their stupidity.
I don't know the guy i haven't seen any of his films but as with Salman Rushdi who has a death contract hunting him, i really despise these acts of zealot which does nothing more other than drawing use back into the Dark age

 

It's a shame that it comes to this; by all accounts, the guy was somewhat bigoted and insulting fundamentalists is not a smart way to ensure your continued existence. I don't think that what this guy was doing was noble or valuable though. By and large, the people who raise ethnicity, race or religion as a segregation issue have a strongly anti-(race/ethnicity/religion) bias.

Still, he didn't deserve to die, and this will only inflame tensions and make this guy into a martyr and poster-child for people who share his beliefs. I say give his killer a fair trial and sentence; the damage he will cause to his own people and beliefs should be punishment enough beyond that, especially if he understands the cause.

Thank God nobody gunned down Pauline Hanson, is all I can say. We just put her in jail instead (briefly) for electoral fraud... ah, the system works.

 

Not the smartest man I guess. In New Zealand we have a saying "Don't poke the bear" (despite not even having bears in New Zealand) which pretty much means: don't piss off someone who can and most probably will kill you. This doesn't mean not to oppose evil, but in most circumstances yelling about how unjust or stupid a religion is - a religion that has built a reputation for possessing fanatics - isn't the smartest thing to do.

Despite not being a smart thing to do, he was pretty noble in my opinion: speaking out against the wrongs of a religion and the use of religion as a defence against justice.

 

The real sad part is that the Dutch people are trying very hard to be tolerant and politically correct towards a very UNtolerant group of people, who literally turned their backs to our society. And that has to stop.

I saw this coming from miles away, the only question was who, when and where. Hirsi Ali can never go out in public EVER again without the protection of armed bodyguards. Same story goes for Geert Wilders. This is not a country i want to live in, if nothing can be done about this. Justice department knows of every mosque where hatred is being preached, hatred towards Israel, America, and the decadent western way of life, they know which schools don't cooperate when it comes to integration, they know the names and whereabouts of somewhat 150 radical muslims, and they do NOTHING. And it's so easy, wrap em up and kick em back to to where they originate from, there they can preach hatred as much as they want, but NOT in my house.

 

Abomination - I have never before heard the phrase "Don't poke the bear" and I probably live somewhere within 40km of you. Amazing the things you learn on these Boards.

 

Yes, and I hope you spread the good word of what not to do to bears, despite there not being bears in New Zealand... So don't be poking them, hmm?

The sad thing, Pac man, is that you can't convict somebody of a crime that they might commit based on their prejudices. Freedom of speech works both ways - those who oppose something and those who approve of it both have the right to free speech. Be thankful that they actually caught the person who murdered Van Gogh. However you can't arrest someone for hating somebody else. You can only arrest them if they actually commit a crime and then the judge will decide whether the hatered is an issue when it comes to sentencing.

 

Well, preaching that they want every Jew and American to die seems criminal enough to me, those things simply cannot be tolerated. When neo nazis announce a parade or a march, everyone is at their toes to prevent it, sometimes they don't even get permission for such a gathering, so why allow muslims to preach their filth in public ?

 

How's ol' Salam Rushdie doing these days? Is he still Down Under in Australia?

Also, welcome to the real world.

 

Not that I know of, ej.

 

Because the neo-nazis are easily identified as a bunch of hoodlums where as there are different sects of muslims - the fanatics and the peaceful ones. Not to mention, you can not be arrested for being a neo-nazi.

 

Recently I've been wondering more and more about a world without any believe at all. How would that world look like? In my opinion it would be a lot more peaceful.

@master of Nuhn

Honestly I think you are too biased as a religious person Mon. Sure van Gogh voiced his opinion in a way that got to every religious person in the country. I find it refreshing, who cares if he swears in every statement, it is but a way of expressing yourself. He doesn't strap TNT on his body and explode in a market.

[ November 03, 2004, 09:26: Message edited by: Apeman ]