The Search For Perfection

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Do you believe in a 'perfect human'? Is it possible to reach such a thing if one tries hard enough? What IS a perfect person?

Opinionate and answer away.

"Perfectionism is simply putting a limit on your future. When you have an idea of perfect in your mind, you open the door to constantly comparing what you have now with what you want. That type of self criticism is significantly deterring." - John Eliot, Ph.D., Reverse Psychology for Success

 

I believe in a current finite perfection which is possible, but implausable to reach. A finite perfect would be a perfection which based on values of the time and would have to continually improve as we improve (primarily in the terms of luxury technology). A finite perfect is whatever exists at the edge of our "vision" of humanity/ideology.

I however do not believe in an absolute perfection as an absolute end seems abitary in the terms of aesthetics, intellect, ethics and so forth. The reason we currently have limits to perfection is because our view of the world is limited. For example, my eye sight limits the level of aesthetics I can detect, but we know from microscopes and such there is a world of aesthics that goes much farther then the human eye. Same goes with the mind, my intellect is limited by what I can conceive, but that doesn't limit the extent of someone else's brain. So then assume I recieved a better set of eyes and a better brain, would there not be something beyond the ability of my new organs and so on for infinity?

 

Having a vision of a perfect person you want to be is, I think, deluding and potentially deleterious. Self-development -- learning a new language, kicking a bad habit -- is one thing, trying to become an abstract ideal is another.

 

Yeah... trying to be perfect is kind of arrogant and smells of the common symptoms of hubris... "Oh yes, I'm trying to be perfect, which makes me better than you, and you, and you, and you."

Of course, that then dissolves your perfectness...

In anycase, I think its better to try and be good or great than to be perfect.

 

"I strive to be perfect because nothing perfect can exist. And thus I try to will myself out of existence."

 

'The idea of perfection holds me'
Sorry, been listening to Faith by The Cure. Anyway...

Well, that line is relevant to my thinking. I love the idea of perfection - it's an excellent thing to think about and be amazed by etc etc.
But it's not going to happen. That is what my realistic side thinks anyway.

I disagree with everyone who's saying that striving for perfection is a bad thing. If your idea of perfection is important to you, then it's an excellent thing to do. That doesn't mean I want to hear about people blowing their trumpets about it - no, I want to see them *doing* it. Then I would be very very happy.

 

"A craftsman knows when he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." and the same can be said for humans.

Fact is to be perfect is impossible since perfection eventually falls down to a matter of opinion. What is perfect in one person's eyes will be imperfect in someone else's.

 

@Aik: Basicly for one to become perfect in one's own view one must constantly be forcing themselves to be something they aren't. Eventually, they will fail in the attempt and will end up with a messed up personality. After all, that's the only thing one can achieve if all one does is judge themselves all the time.

 

If you can provide me with a definition of what it is to be "perfect", I can answer that question.

Since I don't believe that's possible, given that perfection is inherently defined by subjective criteria, my answer would be "no".

I think it's important to strive for what one sees as an ideal state of being, but I think that by definition, it's never possible to reach such an ideal state. So, again, my answer is no. People can and should strive to be as close to their ideal as they believe they can be, but I believe that the pursuit of what we see as a perfect state of existence is what makes life worth living. After all, it'd be depressing if we were just juiced-up meatbags with no purpose.

 

Striving for perfection keeps us going. Reaching it would be disastrous, because there would no longer be any reason to live.

 

Eldular: Sorry, but I suspect that what you're telling me is nonsense

Oh sure, it *could* happen like that, but what you're saying is far too large a generalisation to actually be able to apply it to anything...

I'm thinking that Rally has something with that statement...

 

@Aik: Err, ok in an other form;

If we force ourselves to try to become whatever image we see that is perfect we have to judge our persona all the time in order to try and change it to our ideals. Psycology-wise, that is harmfull to our personality.

 

There's nothing bad about striving for perfection if you don't set any limit to it. Perfection as a goal means that you can and should always try to be better and better in what you do and in what you are. Anything can always be done better no matter how good you are. Our humanity, our physical being sets some limit to what we can be, but the evolution of our thinking will find solutions to these limitations.

Human thinking has a mind of its own. It goes beyond any single human being, and no single human being would be able to think without the influence of others who have gone before us. No human would think human thoughts or speak human language, if they would grow up without any human influence in their early childhood. Our thinking will evolve, it will become better and better if history is not forgotten and it will become closer and closer to perfection. Our thinking shapes the world in which we live in, and it shapes our physical beings. This happens all the time, although it can be argued if this is a good thing or not. However the evolution of our thinking will mean that our current limits in what we can or cannot do is pushed further and further all the time.

As to can an individual achieve perfection I'd answer 'no'. To set a finite goal to oneself is indeed limiting yourself to that goal only. Perfection perceived as an unattainable goal is a different matter, but it will mean that you will never be perfect, if not a life beyond this life is imagined.

 

Once again; to push yourself towards the goal of perfection means you have to find flaws in yourself and therefore be judging yourself all the time.

 

Wasn't the point of this thread to discuss whether perfection was a possible state for humans to achieve rather then whether striving to achieve perfection is good or bad?

Specifically since human mechanizations have no actual bearing on a state of being or idea. I.E. if a revolutionary wiped out 49% of the world's population to create a utopia, it doesn't make utopianism impossible or even a bad thing; the actions undertaken reference the nature of man, not the nature of utopia and the same would hold true for those making horrible decisions to reach perfection, it references humanity, not perfection. On the same note, the nature of man has no realy bearing on man's ability to achieve perfection as the nature of man is inductive rather then deductive. A 75 year man can win a race against 20 year atheletes, but it isn't likely, the same would go for perfection if we believed perfection to be something similar to Plato's forms.

[ June 07, 2006, 19:16: Message edited by: Ilmater's Suffering ]

 

I don't think that searching for flaws in yourself is bad. Judging yourself all the time, or at least sometimes is healthy. Thinking that nothing is wrong with yourself and that you cannot or should not strive to be better is hubris.

In this sense that John Eliot quote is a paradox. Not thinking and looking for flaws in yourself is thinking that you're perfect. Thinking that you already are perfect is more harmful than judging yourself every now and then. It's lying in a stagnant pool of yourself and deteriorating slowly. You don't have to think that judging yourself should be thinking about yourself negatively.

Finding flaws in yourself is just admitting that you can do something better, always. This will open new paths and goals for you to take.

 

Perfection can be a goal if one realises it can't be achieved. And yes, this sounds like a paradox. However, the fact that one can't achieve perfection shouldn't hamper efforts at improving. By this I don't mean never being happy with one's life, but generally having some goals and never deciding that one is good enough as it is, at least on the moral level, although preferably also in professional, academic and other such fields. Being happy with what one has is good and being somewhat realistic in one's expections is also, but being obsessively realistic may lead to pessimism and that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Also, that something can't be made perfect isn't a reason to give up trying to make it good.

[ June 07, 2006, 21:51: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

Chev, you would have like my highschool math teacher. Her motto was "Practice makes better."

She would certainly agree with you.

 

Just because something is unattainable doesn't make the pursuit of it not worthwhile. You can gain a lot of other things while not getting the unattainable goal (which is handy if you know you're never going to reach it...).

So let's say that someone's trying to come up with their perfect moral system. Let's just say, for example, that they decide that Jesus had the perfect system and that they'd like his. So they look at themselves and go 'Hmm, y'know, I'm not very much like Jesus...'
So they read their Bible a bit, see what Jesus would do and change. Yay - growth in whathaveyou, further towards perfection.

But wait! Then they do something and realise; Ho noes! I'm not like Jesus at all! Okay, so they go off and look at their idea of perfection again. More character growth, more thinking, more experience. -> repeat process again and again. Even if perfection is never reached, there has still been a good deal of character growth, thinking, and experiencing (probably more!).

These, I'm inclined to think, are good things. Whether you do or not is a matter for your own personal philosophy and such...

 

I think "perfection" is a term that is often used in a context which is incorrect.

For instance, it would be possible to have a perfect game of snooker by scoring 147 (or thereabouts which is the highest possible score you can have per round of the game) or a perfect game of golf by getting a hole-in-one at every hole of the course. Perfect therefore, is a condition where the requirements for completion/victory/success etc etc are clearly defined and achieved with the absolute best results.

It is not possible, however, to apply "perfection" to dynamic variables such as an individual, a profession etc or subjective quantities such as taste (in the case of foods), attractiveness (in the case of say men/women) etc...

So to summarise, I don't believe that perfection as a word itself can be applied to a human being. You could be a really, REALLY good human, but you will never be a perfect human for the simple reason that no one has ever defined perfection.

Once perfection can be clearly defined beyond a shadow of a doubt, you can be perfect because its only a matter of time before someone sufficiently obsessed with perfection comes along and achieves it...