The Tougher BG: Series

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I've found that most players have opted to add mods to the game to make it far more difficult, but sending encounters that should be normally impossible, (and playing with those mods and insane difficulty nonetheless). I want to get some input on this, because I find that playing the game on the easy to core-rules difficulty is where you get the most out of the game. I use mods all the time to make the gameplay experience more enjoyable, but never to make a fight harder or anything. Of course mods that make the game easier change the experience a bit.

To the point though; Why? and do you really prefer to play through the game fighting things that are 20 levels above you or do you just like going through the game as a different person? I've found that RPG's tend to be abused as Adventure games like Diablo, but an RPG is a book written by some DM/Company that you are reading. Not only reading but also watching and interacting with. You're sharing someones vision of an older world.

What do you guys think on the subject?

 

I never use mods that make it harder. Hard isn't the point. I play on core for the D&D experience because that's what I want. I don't care if it's the same thing over and over because I do things different each time; it's always a new experience. NPC mods and EoU are all I bother with.

 

I mostly use hard-fight orientated mods on an "experimental" level; my plan for the now dead Misunderstood personalities is a good example (if you ever read the thread) of when I would use such mods. I've finished BGII with mods as the (in)famous Tactics merely because I wanted to test if I could beat it. Personaly I don't think I disgrace the term Role-Playing by doing this.

Furthermore I think that tactic orientated mods *can* improve the RP feeling for some. I mean we all got our own ideas and thoughts about the creatures within D&D, and how powerful they are. I for one was very disapointed with a number of creatures which I saw as beeing more than what BG2 had to offer.

 

I must agree with Felinoid! I prefer mods whom enhances the gameplay, not to make it insane difficault to play. I use core rules only. Powergaming can be RP, but not for me...

 

I've never felt compelled to make the game harder. I play on core rules, and the difficulty has always felt right. This may mean I'm not that good a player, but that doesn't bother me any. Some of the things I read on the forums make me wonder what some folks gaming experience is like. I have for instance never tried a solo, because the tactics you'd have to employ don't strike me as fun.

 

The only mod I played that made BG2 more difficult was Solafein. I thought, 'Hey a F/M NPC! Cool! I can be something different!' Sola was great...until his depressive spouting at every 10 minutes had me cringing. The quest components that came with him - ugh! I barely lived through the Improved Shade Lord (fought with Jaheira's Harper-hounding ex-patriots, too) and that witch with her uber death spiders or wtf they were. In short, no matter what strategy I tried or how many layers of cheesy I topped my party with, I ended up *dying*.

When the Bhaalspawn dies, there's no 'grab the **** and ressurrect at the temple'. It's game over and re-load time. I limit myself to 10 re-loads for *any* fight and Sola's death spider fight had me at 25 re-loads. I ended up using CTRL+Y too often and feeling guilty afterwards.

I don't like mods that make monsters tougher or improve enemy AI. The game is hard enough as is, tyvm, and if I wanted it more difficult, I'd move the slider waaaay over to the right side. TBH, I think Silverstar is the way he goes on and on about how wonderful Tactics and Ascension are. I'm not a masochist. Continual re-loading is not fun. It makes me frustrated and my hands itch to

 

I'm with Keumper. Been playing with Ascension but not the improved boss battles portion and even without those installed it seems to have improved many of the boss battles in ToB in different small ways. Like that damned abjuration immunity or whatever it is that goes along with Draconis invisibility power so you can't see him or Abizagal using the Kai power in his mortal form. Even the dragon in the Watchers Keep has improved his fighting abilities. And all I've been really after is checking out the new stuff done to the very end of the game.

 

Those mods ruined the end of the game for me last time I tried it.


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I mean it's supposed to be a personal struggle between you, Bhaal and Mel and it turns out to be this crazy slaughter-fest where each of your characters have to be able to go 1v1 against the same bosses you had to struggle to beat 6v1 earlier in the game!!! WHen I'm in the middle of that, I'm not thinking about what my characters would do, but rather how to win.

 

Ehm... and winning is *not* what your character would want?

 

You can also make things harder on core by forcing yourself not to use cheese...

For example, act like you don't know who or what is up ahead. Don't abuse the fog of war. If there's supposed to be an ambush, walk into it, don't send your thief up as a spotter and shoot three fireballs and a skull trap into the room ahead of you while hiding behind fog of war, after buffing yourself to the gills for mopping up. Yeah, I know the standard response is "well, I'm in a dungeon so I'm always prepared and scouting ahead." Instead, tell yourself you're on the enemy's home ground, that they have thieves and scouts too, and that this would neutralize your advantages.

Sure it can be fun to figure out ways neutralize really tough threats on tactics, etc. But as I look back, the battles that were the most fun were the most chaotic, where you actually felt like there was an ebb and flow to the battle, where you had to improvise strategies you wouldn't ever use normally, and where you could feel the tide of the battle turn after the outcome was in doubt. Figuring out a flawless strategy before the battle and simply executing it is less fun IMO.

 

Hehehee this is TOTALLY my subject!

I can write down all those mods I have, but it is hard. Suffice to say that I have every mod possible to make the game harder, challenging, to the point of becoming quite impossible to beat.

I love it. Why? It forces me to use creative strategies (some may call this cheese) and I love beating all those hard-guys.

Improved Ilych (tactics version) now this makes the very first dungeon soo much fun! And challenging! It feels so thrilling right in the start of the game! I don't want to wrestle composite long bows from goblins any more. And come to think of it, my very first PC was slaughtered by those arrowing goblins. Now I find them boring and tackle Neophyte Galebrezus, Clerics summoning Fallen Devas etc. Oh this is the improvement! I think I am a pretty high-level player, not PC vise mind you.

An improved lich, buffed up to the max, has SIivination+Abjuration and has an Improved Pit Fiebd who has 6 attacks per round, save vs poison or die, release 20d6 fireballs, symbols etc. NOW that is interesting!

Improved Bodhi, a level 25 fighter, with Fshield Blue always, 4 attacks/round, drains 5 level per hit, has MANY cool matriarch powers like sulphucre-something sleep, summons bats, bury alive, dead touch, etc. Isn't this interesting? And she gets a second wind (fully healed) on insane difficulty, she also has two vampire mages, and Artemis Entereri!(you have Drizzt right?) COOLEST battle ever!

Imp. Irenicus final battle is WHAT suits the end of a magnificent game like SoA. This game is a classic, so it needs a more original, hard and memorable end-fight!

Ascension buffs up all five except Sendai. And Oversight buffs up Sendai to make her the most powerful. A true example that high level cleric/mages are VERY powerful!

Ritual, Knights of Drak-Renown, these all add game-time. And they are fun!

This also ignites my creativity. My Chain Contingency+4 Project Images combo is neat. Just the other day I killed a whole room full of IMPROVED mindflayers with ONE HIT! Can'T you believe? Get a detonation arow, use Greater Death Blow, one shot, all room is affected, all DEAD Improved and oh so mighty MFs. Great XP and satisfaction!

So I personally LOVE mods. I think they make the game SOO MUCH better. I can't think of an unmodded BG2 now. I think I am a mod-addict. They greatly enhance the game, add many more game-hours. (fought improved Sendai battle for more than 3 hours. ) I like to have a BG2 game, UNIQUE in all expects. I don't think any other player can survive in my own BG2 game. And this makes me feel satisfied.

I LOVE MODS! Do some people want to make even harder mods? I would like to try that!

I am a total and happy mod fan. What do you say to that?

Next asignment:Eclipse party and Imp.Asylum guys. (I couldn't kill the last two members of the latter) It is great to have aims and plans even I have finished the game so many times before!

 

So I finally decided to stop lurking and start posting =)

I will start by admitting that I am not much of a roleplayer, never even heard about pnp until this forum and hence I do not feel the sentiment that some people here have about mods that break dnd rules.

Here is my take on mods that make the game harder, tactics in particular. It makes the game more fun for me because it FORCED me to try different tactics. Maybe it's just me, but I just do not have the willpower to pretend ignorance of the battles ahead. After playing unmodded games for several times, I found myself just basically breaching, true sighting, and hacking the foes to pieces. For example, I wondered back then why ruby ray even exist when there are far better method of dispelling enemy's protection. Come tactics however and the worth of ruby ray quickly becomes apparent.

It also seems to me that some people just read reviews and decide that tactics is not for them. I think that most people should try to finish it at least once to get the feel for it before deciding.

There is also this misconception that tactics require item-upgrade-mod and extreme use of cheese to beat. While I will not deny that some enemies of tactics are way above you in level (the cleric in ilyich being the most quoted one due to the fallen deva), or just ridiculously overpowered with immunities (eg faldorn), you do not have to beat them. For the 2 example above, you can just not meet them, or ask cernd to fight her for you. Other than those select few enemies most components of tactics are actually only slightly harder than the ones you encounter in regular game, just don't expect to get through them with 1-2 spells and charging with your tanks. In fact in my early runs I lose alot of battles against perfectly legal parties with lower level and lesser equipments (Ritual guardians and city encounters) just because they use strategies that I am not familiar with.

Which brings me to another point, since tactics if a collection of modules from different author, they employ quite a variety of strategies. Add more mods from different authors and it will become even more heterogenous.

I for one also enjoy npc mods, quest mods, (Currently trying the marvelous "Beyond The Law" beta) etc. However I just can't bring myself to go back playing unmodded battles again. It's just not as fun anymore. While BG is labelled as an "RPG", it is obviously as attractive to powergamers as it is to roleplayers. Sure, play it the way you want, but why can't one be both ?


Sorry for the bad english

 

Well I use mods to make the game harder (tactics , ascension ) and no mods that give new and overpowered items . I agree with abel you don't really need to use cheese to finish the game , in the unmodified game I never cast project image and with mods installed I use the spell only at special battles (and no multiple planetars , if I want to cheat I use the console ). With some frustrating exceptions the game with tactics is better , modules like Smarter Mages ,Improved Nymphs ,Smarter Dragons correct mostly AI problems and are great to have .

 

I always liked the idea about increasing some battles difficulty however I really dislike when they do combinations not allowed in the rules or give abilities that just simply cant exist. In short I like it when they made it harder in a legit fashon.