Thief Skills in Party

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I was wondering how the rest of you like to incorporate thief skills into your party mix. I find a single class thief to be an inefficient way of providing thief skills in the mix.

My party composition tends to consist of a paladin, Cleric, Mage, and a mage/cleric MC character. I have tried 2 strategies - one of which is to include a dwarf single class fighter (with grand mastery in axes) and an Elf MC fighter-thief. The fighter-thief was very effective and fun to play, however, I also enjoy having a ranger in the party. In the second scenario I utilized an elvish ranger and made the dwarf a MC fighter-thief who basically specialized in finding traps and picking locks (which from a role-playing perspective I thought would be reasonable for a dwarf). The ranger handled the scouting and just soaked up damage from traps when he set them off. However, I thought the tracking skill over-rated. Which do you guys think superior?

Any thoughts or opinions? I guess another way of looking at all this is considering MC or DC all clerics. Fighter Cleric seems a good combo but I hate the fact that you loose the ability to use axes (for a dwarven character).

 

Used to have the same problem.

Compared to 99.97% of the people on this board, I'm an AD&D newbie. One day, I'm messing around on IwD (cheating left-and-right) and juggling characters around for skillz and one-liners. Then it dawned on me: Multi-Class rules, so why not multi as far as I can. I happened to see Fighter/Thief/Mage as an option. First time I've *ever* multi-classed, period. And to top it off, I found the xp-capp remover to go along with it. Level 30/30/30 (or is it 40/40/40; i lose track).

Dude! FTM (which is slightly better than FTN) rules. You can level up ALL the way, in each class. Takes a pyloric sphincter load to do it, but you get all the skillz with it.

Multi-Class is the way to go. It might not have been the way to go with BG1 or all the ones before it, but with HoW and BG2, MC all the way.

 

Definately multi-class.

Keeping a single class mage or thief alive early on in the game is a pain, and once you get to higher levels you are at most one level behind where you would be as a single class character anyway.

The only single class characters in my party are my main fighter and a cleric.

 

Multi-classes are weak on level ups. They will only level up at half the speed of their two abilitites, as the experience is split between them. As for keeping them alive, just make sure you always keep them in the background and kill the monsters which go for the weak persons first.

 

I tend to use multi or dual classes for any cleric or thief charcter in my party. It's also useful for mage classes, though I would definately suggest a dual for that. I always have a cleric/mage, and usually have a multi fighter/cleric and a fighter/thief or thief d mage perhaps.

In general, the only skill a thief really needs is detect traps, followed by hide in shadows, and finally trailing far behind is pick locks and pick pocket. Trap finding I definately found to be the most important one in the game, as there are enough traps that I woudn't want to suck up the damage. Next is hide in shadows. It's not as useful as I had hoped, and I do regret pumping my early levels into this. I usually just slowly scouted ahead with one party member and lured any monsters back to my group if I wanted to go that route. Pick locks is a waste as I opened almost every lock in the game just by bashing it. There were a few I couldn't, so I'd either wait till later to put points into this or just use knock. Pick pockets is essentially useles as there are only a few places you can use this skill in the whole game. I'd use potions of master theivery instead. With that all said, a multiclass fighter/thief or a thief dual fighter or mage is the way to go with the thief class. A pure thief is a waste of time in this game.

My party ended up being a half elven cleric/ranger, elven fighter, dwarven fighter/cleric, half elven fighter/thief, cleric/illusionist, and a particarly weak fighter d mage at level 5. I didn't like all the multiclass characters that much, but then all the clerics saved me alot of trouble hiking back to the surface to rest all the time.

 

I know I've said this 100 times before, but here it is again. F/M/T ROCKS. If you want to have a truely GREAT time, play IWD/HOW/TotLM with one SOLO. Level up is NOT a problem when you play with only 1 character. It may be a little challenging at first, but trust me, it's well worth it. Playing IWD solo was one of the funnest CRPG experiences I have ever had.

 

I seriously doubt it is any fun. Reloading and resting is generally not fun.

 

These are all interesting replies, but I guess another way of phrasing my question is are there any class skills or abilities that are so important that one would never dilute them with multi or dual class play.

Theoretically one could MC or DC the whole party, and if you were patient enough the pay off in the end would be considerable.

I have always felt that one single class fighter type and one single class mage/sorceror type were necessary to maximize your ability to deal with the boss type creatures. I also feel that the Find/Disarm traps ability is indispensible and easily the most important feature of the thief class, role-playing aspects not withstanding. Clerics are second rate fighters, and I think what really hurts them is the lack of multiple attacks per round. They seem to have reasonable THAC0 advancement. Therefore they really end up just hanging around taking the occasional swing and then contributing healing spells following melee.

So much for the powergaming bit, now, from a roleplaying perspective what is more enjoyable - Ranger for Fighter-Thief? I have always kind of pictured the fighter-thief as more the bounty hunter type able to track their quarry through any environment. In particular, the TOB (I know it is not IWD related) expansion seemed to strengthen the association with the ability to set traps.

Anyway, I will quit rambling for now.

Lysendor

 

Hey Now Molliskin!

I actually reloaded few times. As far as resting is concerned: Sure there were some long ones, but it is DEFINATELY alot of fun to do. The only thing that you are lacking is priest spells, and besides heal what spells do you need. You will find more healing potions and scrolls that you can carry, and I find it even more fun to use those instead of resting. When you finally get the ring of regeneration, you will rest less and less, except for spell memorizing, and lets face it, you would rest just for that with a full party.

Playing solo IS a challenge at first, but if you start out with a long bow, and put points in pick pocket so you can get good items in Kuldahar, you should be able to kick a suprising amount of ass.

The best thing about playing solo is that it makes the game much more exciting. It really makes you think about tactics and stratagey. It really makes it a more PERSONAL experience.

 

Well for gaming, I almost always have a pure fighter around. The front line tank is such an important aspect of any well rounded party, I don't see why anyone would want to do without a fighter. None of the other classes really fill this roll as well as fighter. As far as a pure mage, I'd only have that in a game with level limits as low as BG. In high level games, there are always better DC choices than a straight mage. I created a pretty weak fighter/mage for IWD, but he will still useful by the end of the game, and there were enough ability enhancing items available to make him a decent fighter at games end as well. I also really like the thief dual mage option, because there just aren't enough uses for a pure thief for me to have one in my party.

Now as far as Roleplaying goes, I just don't get it. Call me particular, but I just can't roleplay a bunch of sprites on a computer screen by myself. CRPG's just put too many limitations on the gamer to create a real roleplay experience. I play computer games and keep the RP stuff for pen and paper. Much more enjoyable that way IMO.

 

Now Llindin!

I hate to play without cleric, and I doubt anything with a cleric would be too hard going solo with. I hate doing the same more than two times in a row, especially if I'm loosing just because my characters just can't hit the damn monsters (which is the biggest reason I just can't sit and play Pool of Radiance for more than 15 minutes at the time).

On the other hand I love playing many different characters, each with different abilities, weak points and strong points. I have to put up a special strategy for each of them, and a strategy for my whole party together. Playing with multiple characters can then be just as challenging as playing solo.

 

Now I have enjoyed playing IWD several different character classes and full and not so full parties. All I am suggesing is try it solo. It is a fun experience. Like I said with a F/M/T it is not that difficult. You level up rather quickl, and I suggest using a Long Bow for the first few levels. Once you get Invisibility, Fire Ball, and Mirror Image you are virtually unstoppable(if you go to HOW and pick up sunfire and some of the great items there you WILL be unstoppable) I actually found it easier to play solo at the higher chapters of the game, than it was playing with a full party. All I am suggesting is try it! It's not the best thing since sliced bread, but do try it out. You might just like it!

[This message has been edited by Llandon (edited November 11, 2001).]