Throne of Bhaal Replacement TC!

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So, after a small chat at #sorcerers about a possible replacement for the Throne of Bhaal part of the Baldur's Gate Trilogy, we decided we could find an alternative ending to the Throne of Bhaal story, which left many unclear issues about Cyric and the domains of murder etc etc, and generally didn't give the fulfillment of the prequels (Baldur's Gate I, Shadows of Amn). I will take a leading part in the construction of the mod, offering my help in dialogs, areas, creatures, items, spells, kits, whatever you may imagine. Just a small piece of what I can do in the fields of area artwork below:

www.teambg.net/~mindflayer/toblur.jpg

So, what I would like is your input on what the alternate storyline should be! Generally, all input will be grately appreciated in almost any field of modding. The mod will take place in the area between Athkatla and Amkethran, so we could include all areas from Shadows of Amn again, and I would also like to add a lot of new areas in Tethyr.

 

As I said in the chat, Epic classes would be very cool I'll think about it some more, but some encounters with Minor Gods should be possible. Choosing sides with one group/God and getting extra powers/spells/abilities. It should be pretty easy to get that into the story.

I'm looking forward to this already!

 

I wouldn't get rid of the entire TOB storyline as parts of it (the battle of Saradush, the pocket plane) are worth keeping. But if you do...


I like the encounters with minor Gods idea. And I'd also like to introduce a few epic level characters like Elminster, Khelben, the Simbul, etc, as possible allies/enemies of the PC. After all, if the PC and his cronies, from an evil point of view, are running around the Sword Coast causing trouble, it's not likely Elminster is just going to stand aside and let them. He'd send some henchmen to look into the business, and if they proved unequal to the challenge, probably come and have a look himself. Maybe the final fight therefore for an evil party, instead of battling Melissan and the Five, could be against Elminster, Khelben and a few of their allies.

For a good party, maybe the PC and co get targeted for death by Cyric himself and spend the game getting steadily closer to a confrontation with the new God of Death.

 

Well. I like Cyric. He should kill CHARNAME. Kill him dead and take the domain of Murder permenantly.

 

Even if CHARNAME is good, if s/he choosed god(dess)hood, s/he should conflict with Cyric. After all, CHARNAME would more than likey become allied with Mystra (especially if CHARNAME is a Mage). And we all know how much Cyric loves Mystra.

But if CHARNAME is evil, s/he would definately conflict with Cyric because CHARNAME would inhert the murder portfolio, taking it from Cyric.

(Now that's an inheritence. I got a few cermanic houses and animals when my grandfather passed away. CHARNAME gets God(dess) of Murder.)

 

Well I can't talk for anyone else, but I'd certainly support it....

 

List of possible god-encounters:

• Cyric: speaks for itself, he wants you out of the way, so you'll meet loads of his followers. It's possible they pretend to be someone else and send you away on almost impossible quests to get rid of you if they can't do it themselves.

• Kelemvor: Is pretty pissed at Cyric and he'll want some kind of revenge. He might be reserved in helping you, since you are an unknown factor. So you'll be send on quests by him/his followers to determine your true alignment and intentions. You'll be rewarded with items, spells and maybe a new NPC, like one of his clerics for example.

• Mystra: Again a huge enemy of Cyric. She might have less reservations in helping you. Again powerful items/spells of course and maybe an Epic level mage NPC

• Iyachtu Xvim: Trying to expand his power, he might trick you into helping him get to Cyric. He'll probably betray you and leave you in a rather unpleasant situation, but before that you might get some quests and items out of it.

• Mask: Another enemy of Cyric, pretty pissed at losing so much of his power, he'll want revenge. More in a sneaky way, with loads of intrigue. Mainly a thief option of course.

• Torm/Tyr: Maybe a weird option, but it's something for the more good-aligned characters, like paladins. It will create some problems regarding your heritage and background, but they/he might help you get rid of the taint for good.

I picked these Deities because most have some history with Cyric and would be interested in the outcome of your battle and can be easily linked with classes. Of course we need to work this out further so if anyone has something to add or anything, please do.

 

I suppose the problem with having the party encounter Gods is that even at 40th level, the odds of getting better of a genuine God is practically zilch. In 3E AD&D*, the Gods tend to have somewhere in the region of 60 or more character levels so even a weak God would have no trouble beating the hell out of a 40th level party.

Although the avatars of Gods are another matter. Several (including Bhaal) were killed in the Time of Troubles and their powers aren't that overwhelming that characters in a TOB conversion would be able to get the better of them.

* Okay, I know BG2 used the 2E AD&D rules but I'm just illustrating a point.

 

Just because you became a god doesn't mean you become the god of Murder. It's possible you have no beef with Cyric at all (if you're good/neutral).

Evil however will probably have beef with Cyric, wanting his murder portfolio. That isn't always the case though, your portfolio should be determined by your alignment, so you might have to think of a few virtues for the PC to be god of.

Does anyone know exactly 'how' someone becomes a god? In order to become one you have to have a portfolio, but are the number of portfolio's limited? Methinks the primary god you're going to have to deal with is Ao. He will be the one who decides your portfolio.

 

OK, here is something I never quite 'got'. Bhaal was killed right? It wasn't just his avatar? But then again, if Bhaal was killed, then surely so was Mask?

 

They do not. Reread the Deities and Demigods source book if you doubt me. The greatest gods have 30 character levels or so. Of course, that translates to about 60 in 2e. For reference, a full party of level 40s could probably beat up a single level 60 character, but it would be a tough fight.

 

Okay, I probably got the levels for your "average" God wrong, but even if the God is level 60 and your party is level 40, there's still very little chance you're going to get the better of him. After all, what self-respecting God is going to dirty his hands fighting some mortals? He'd send in a few dozen high level henchmen first of, and if the party get the better of them *then* he might deign to fight them himself.

 

Well, according to Mindflayer, it's possible to make some changes and get the max level up to 50, after that it's hard-coded.

 

If it's going to be a TC then would it necessarily have to be set in Amkethran? I woulden't mind seeing a new area like Icewind Dale or Kara-Tur (the latter may be difficult unless there is a game I haven't heard of in that setting) although this may add a huge chunk of file size to download.

And what about NPC's? should it be possible to join up with the likes of Elminster or Drizzt or the evil alternatives (don't know any evil characters)?

I realize that people like Drizzt would have their own goals but seriously, if you are an epic level character, and something as major as this is going down, then I doubt Drizzt would just sit back and watch everything fall apart with him doing nothing, it just doesnt sound like his style, but then I know nothing about him. In any case I don't really care if he becomes an NPC or not, and I feel quite attached to the original NPC's I'd never exclude Imoen for example, or Anomen, even though he can be a pain in the arse, he's very usful, and has one of the most developed backrounds character wise.

 

The Forgotten Realms is full of really powerful evil NPCs who could be the party's major enemies in a total conversion. How about Halaster Blackcloak or Szass Tamm? Or maybe some of the archwizards of Shade? Some of them could make a challenging encounter for an enemy capable of beating the end of TOB.

If I was playing as an evil party, I'd love to see a final encounter which pitted you against Elminster. As far as non-God characters go, he's pretty much the toughest you can get.

New joinable NPCS? Drizzt! Drizzt! Drizzt! Okay, he's overpowered for a character of his level but maybe he could start several levels lower than the rest of the party which would help balance things out. Or for an evil party, Artemis Entreri.

 

How about the epic spells though? I don't know any of them and it would probably not be possible to change the spell book, and imo it's overpowered to just put a couple on each level since you could just use all of them and ignore the lower level ones so how would it go? erase all the level one spells and replace it with epic level ones? I don't think their would be many people using magic missle at that level but I don't suppose that would mean getting rid of every thing would it?

 

I don't imagine adding a 10th page to the spellbook would be an impossibility for epic level spells (says someone who readily admits he knows nothing about these things).

Or maybe epic spells could be accessed via the special abilities button.

 

So, this thread has given a good start for the possible replacement for TOB. Perhaps it would be nice if we placed the mod in Calimshan (Calimport mainly), the islands nearby, and even the Jungles of Chult for the end.
If we manage to assemble a good story, we could easily set up a small site + community for it in the summer and get it started.

 

I was thinking (for once) that maybe the proper Demogorgan can be included and not just his avatar, but the real deal?

Personally I don't see him as helping eith good or evil characters seeing as he is the prince of demons and a loner type enemy with his own demon and other abyssial allies to help him (although I don't personally see him as the type to ask for help even if he was facing Ao himself).

 

I always thought the Demogorgon you fought in Watcher's Keep was the real deal. He was certainly tough enough.

I agree he wouldn't ask the party for help, though he might order them.