Tiamat, Grendel, and a few others

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I've had this question bugging me for the last few days. Can anyone elaborate on what Tiamat, Grendel, (a) Baelrog, and Jormugand are? (No DnD/LotR/other fantasy-related replies, please. I know what the DnD Tiamat is. I'm interested in knowing what they were in mythology.)

Thank you all in advance.

[EDIT]: Just saying that mythology-related replies are the ones I was interested in.

[This message has been edited by C'Jakob (edited June 02, 2002).]

 

Hmm...Tiamat's a dragon IIRC, queen of dragons or something. Don't know about the rest. sorry

 

Grendel was an evil wyrm (or was it a witch ...?) from the legend of Beowulf. Our insane english teacher served us the early medieval version of it in school so I know for sure ...

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited June 02, 2002).]

 

IIRC a baelrog (pronounced Bhaal-Rog) is from the LotR. It's that thing that 'kills' Gandalf in FotR.

 

Tiamat's a dragon that came from Heliopolis I think, Balrog is from Lord of the Rings but I've never heard of the others.

[This message has been edited by Shadow_Goddess (edited June 02, 2002).]

 

I knew I wasn't too good in medieval english ... ... bah, ogre, witch, dragon - let my sword decide what it hits!

 

Tiamat is ancient name of a planet that cycled around our Sun and was destroyed by the 12th planet of Solar System (which still exists and is called Nibiru).
Sumerians believed that Earth is a part of that ancient planet created from the cataclysm and used word Tiamat to name it which ment to them "the one who gave birth".

Other names I've never seen in mythologies but only in LotR and d&d.

Note: I'm not imagining things. This is a serious post.

[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited June 02, 2002).]

 

Well I suppose you'll concede that those are only theories Extremist

Actually Tiamat's origins are Babylonian and she is depicted as a serpent (dragon). Mythologically, she is the creator of the world. She bears a child (Marduk) which goes to kill Tiamat by splitting her in two, one half forming the earth and the other half forming the sky
However, this is the Babylonian story, and Sumerian/Asyrrian/Hittite/Hurrian myths are different although they revere her as the creator of life as well.

The others are answered I believe except Jormungand, who in nordic mythology is the son of Loki and a giantess. He is thrown into the ocean by Odin and becomes a terrible serpent as time passes by. In Ragnarok (the end of the world) he'll fight Thor and they will kill eachother. So he's also the killer of thor

 

No no no.
It's originally Sumerian. Babylonians copied it. Read this article: http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/07/18_god.html

[EDIT]
It doesn't matter actually. I'm not taking it as a theory but as a myth.

[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited June 03, 2002).]

 

Well I won't argue whether it's Babylonian or Sumerian although almost all of the texts I've read say it's Babylonian in origin.

In mesopotamian mythology, the planet of crossing (Nibiru that you've mentioned) "was forever destined to return to the place of the celestial battle, where it had originally 'crossed the path' of the watery planet Tiamat"

Tiamat being earth as her halves formed the earth and sky after she was killed by Marduk.

And the existance of a 10th (or more) haven't been proven yet (hence I said they were theories). There are actually many many objects orbiting the sun but many are too small to be observed or to be called planets.

EDIT: Of course I may very well be wrong As I said, this is just what I've read through time and mesopotamian mythology gets all subjective imo in terms of interpretation.

[This message has been edited by Invoker (edited June 03, 2002).]

 

Tiamat is a band They make nice Metal. Their music is doomy and gloomy.

Check out: Judas christ and clouds!

 

Umm I have heard about Jormungand but is it really the serpent? I thought the serpent was only called "midgårdsormen" (middleearth serpent) and that it went around the whole world. Jormungand could have been its real name but then it is very rarely used.

I wont comment on the others because I dont know about them but what little I know seems to agree with former posters.

 

joacqin ... you're right about Jormugand aka the Midgard Serpant. In Norse mythology, it spanded the world, biting its own tail. Thor almost caught it once on a fishing trip (great story). During Ragnarock (the battle for the last days), Thor slays the serpant in a huge battle. However, as the monster dies, it releases a burst of poison, which kills the mighty Thor.

Jormugand & Feneris wolf are both children of Lokki. Lokki turned himself into a female horse to seduce a very powerful male horse and win a bet (another long story). In this state Lokki got pregent and had 2 or 3 children. The serpant, the Wolf (who bites of Tyr's hand and kills Odin at Ragnarok) ... and I think he also had Slepneir ... Odin's 8 legged steed.

 

I have a riddle: The name Tiamat appears once in Baldur's Gate II. Does anyone know exactly where?

 

In one of those bloody books that are all over the place?

 

Nope

 

Poster in the Adventure's Mart.

 

correct even Tiamat didn't knew that until I told it her.

 

Thanks again for all of your feedback. If anyone notices a connection between the monsters besides mythology, it's that they're all names of broods of the Zerg Swarm in Starcraft. The names of the broods are Tiamat, Surtur, Fenris, Jormugand, Garm, Grendel, Baelrog, and Leviathan.