Tips for playing a Paladin

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Okay my days as a DM are gone now with a succefuly 'Last' mission (see Foreing language). Anyway I'm once again on the players' bench. I want to play a character I never played before; a Paladin. But I don't really know how to make a good one. My firends and I value roleplay above all in D&D so I don't really care about power. We're playing in Greyhawk 3.0E.

So far I've got those stats

9, 11, 14, 16, 17, 13

Where should I put them? I know he'll be a warrior for sure, so STR and CON are important. but as a man of faith I can't neglect WIS and CHA and for INT and DEX I'm not sure if it is vital for a valid roleplay Paladin.

My alignment will obviously be Lawful Good

And what Deity to worship? I wanted to worship a deity that is as close as posible to the Christian God. Remember I'm playing Greyhawk, however the DM is open minded he allow one player to ''bring'' Illmater (or whatever his name) to greyhawk, so he's a cleric of Illmater in greyhawk kinda unique if you ask me.

I wanted more or less to be a Crusader so I think Long sword and a shield with a plate mail should do the trick. Or perhaps a two handed sword mmm what to choose what too choose.

For the roleplay what should be a Paladin's value, should he have unlimited generosity? Should he charge Blindly toward evil? Could he have mercy upon an evil being to try to save his soul? Could he be open minded to new things and philosophy or be totaly closed to other things than his own faith and sence of good.

That's about it, thanks in advance

 

Lots of possibilities here.

There are multiple kinds of Paladins, depending on what diety you serve. You want one close to christianity, but christianity is a devers bunch as well. Any idea on what you like? Protestants and Catholics are surely not the same, but they share some things in there social role in the world.

First tell us what kind of paladin you'd like to be. A merciful healer is not the same as a devout hunter of evil and choas.

I prefer Pelor (or rather Lathander) as a deity. Undeadhunter, healer and not too strict with the application of laws etc.

 

A link you will learn to love

Statwise, I'd say

Str 14
Dex 11
Con 16
Int 9
Wis 13
Cha 17

 

My tip is play the character, not the stats. Playing a Lawful Good Human Paladin of Big Smita' with STR N DEX N CON N INT N WIS 10 CHA 10 and, incidentally, a name, is boring. Now, when you play a real character with a real personality, some set of traits that make his alignment and some set of stats that make his personality, then it's different. For the deity, I would strongly suggest a very personal relationship.

In Greyhawk, the viable choices are Heironeous, Pelor, St Cuthbert and probably a couple of lesser deities. Heironeous is a bit close to FR's Tyr, but not as intense and uptight on some things, while putting some additional emphasis on other ones. Maybe something between Tyr and Torm, with possibly a slight hint of Ilmater. However, he's a young guy with a sword, so he hardly resembles any person of the Christian Holy Trinity. Pelor is a rough counterpart of Lathander. Ideal for an undead hunter, accomplished healer, messenger of hope and whatever else you get which is intense on light. St Cuthbert is a smiter like Helm. He is LN himself but opposes evil and tolerates no evil clergy in his ranks. Nonetheless, he is predominantly concerned with law and order and if something is good or evil only really matters so much that good is more likely to coincide with law than evil is, which is why he favours good. I've also heard about a certain lesser power aligned with Pelor. An LG goddess who was a paladin of Pelor in her mortal life. Likely a good choice.

Your paladin neither has to be blind nor reckless. You have the paladin code to follow but your personality is up to you. You can be the purest of the pure Galahad type of quester. You can be an enlightened and noble nobleman and ruler of some nation or city. You could also be a scion of an old family of paladins with very specific traditions dating back to times immemorial. You can also be a seemingly plain knight who feels some personal relationship with his god but doesn't even know why he is a paladin and not an LG fighter and maybe doesn't even realise much of it (until such high levels that he can't ignore the fact he's casting spells and not getting focused on weapon mastery, while he quite clearly isn't a cleric, either ). Another candidate could be an exiled royal. Or a peasant child charged with a very important mission by a deity.

As for mercy, generosity and others, it's heavily influenced by the deity's alignment and dogma. Also possibly by the paladin's alignment details (if he's more lawful than good or vice versa on the specific issue) and some other factors. A Lathander paladin will likely strive for unlimited generosity, while an Ilmatari one for supplying as much indispensible provisions to as many people possible and maybe a Cuthbert or Helm one would try to fix the problem of poverty in the region after supplying some very basic aid.

[ May 03, 2005, 15:20: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

This goes for all characters. Not just paladins.

People tend to make characters based on game mechanics, not a concept or a character. And it's the main cause for bad roleplaying, I think. If you don't have a clear image of WHO your character is, roleplaying him will be impossible. The best characters I've played are the ones I had a nice background story for. Not the ones I picked out of a WotC book.

 

What about people who just want to Smite wrong doers and make sure that those wrong doers have the rightful amount of vengeance delivered to them?

Would that be bad roleplaying?

 

As an answer to your question, a quote from the article I linked before. It details the "It detects as evil. LET'S KILL IT!" mindset paladins often have.

Aside from that, people who just want to smite wrongdoers and exact vengeance, they don't need to be paladins. They can be any class. In fact, the very idea of vengeance goes against what a paladin stands for. (vengeance doesn't equal justice)

Personally, I must say that if the answer to "who is your character?" is "He is someone who just want to Smite wrong doers and make sure that those wrong doers have the rightful amount of vengeance delivered to them." I will indeed consider that bad roleplaying A character is a person, not merely a tool for justice. There's so much more aspects.

 

Possibly. What you describe sounds closer to LN than LG, absent more information. Paladins are just but they are merciful. Vengeance only breeds more hate and solves nothing.

- Release the prisoners.
- What? You aren't going to kill me?
- *Slows his breath back to normal* No, I'm not. Release the prisoners.
- You surely must desire vengeance.
- I wish you no harm.
- You won't purge the world of such evil?
- That's a fight you need to fight yourself.
- So there is no justice?
- I'm not the judge of you.
- How noble... and foolish. *Pulls a dagger out of his boot, jumps forward*
*AoO 17 DevCrit, instafrag* Foolish?

[ May 03, 2005, 19:52: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

Some Paladins see themselves as the fist of their deity -- sanctimonious and haughty, they do fall into the "it's evil, let's kill it!" mindset. I can imagine a Paladin of St. Cuthbert being like this, or one of Helm. This sort of rigid inflexibility is the view many people have of Paladins, and I think it is one valid interpretation, but it surely is not the only one. Think Keldorn in BG2, wanting to kill Viconia because of what she is. A more peaceful type would be Alhandra(sp) in City of Fire -- she refuses to use her ability to detect evil on Krusk unless everyone in town submits to the same interrogation technique -- evil or not, she gives him a chance.

 

That might be true for humans (and other humanoids), but characters in D&D spend a lot time fighting monsters. I can't imagine a paladin showing mercy against something evil as a demon or something inhuman as a mind flayer. And some enemies can't be knocked unconscious and shown mercy (like undead).

Of course, some enemies, human or not, have abilities that ensure that they don't need to provoke an AoO to attack such a merciful paladin, or manage to "convince" him to set them free and leave them alone.

 

Could you say that 'monsters' with an "always (Chaotic/lawful/neutral) evil" alignment according to the monster manual are monsters that could be slain anytime (Devils/demons/evil undead) and monsters that are "usually evil" could be nice enough to show mercy?
In the Book of Exalted Deeds, you can find a Mindflayer who is a Redeemed Villain, that could be possible, IIRC, only for usually evil monsters, such as this mindflayer.

 

I would definitely say "always evil" monsters don't need to be shown mercy in all but the most extreme cases (an astronomically small proportion of these might not be evil). Outsiders with the evil subtype (demons, devils) are basically evil personified, so IMO, they especially deserve smiting.

My thoughts on "usually evil" enemies is that a very merciful character would show mercy, but it probably wouldn't work. It would take a very profound experience to turn an orc who has hated humans all his life and known nothing but brutality into a good character. Now consider a monster, like a mind flayer, who considers humans either food or slaves, in that situation.

 

If I were the DM, redeemed fiends would probably turn into solars. Other evil types don't look as odd when converted. I mean, does a converted drow look odd anymore?

 

Hell no, I wouldn't change them into solars at all

Think of the possibilities. A good-aligned Fiend.

There's so many options, so many fun situations to roleplay him with.

 

FFG anyone?

I've always felt that always alignments are just a cop out for DMs who don't want to deal with the deeper issues. Now I've got no problems with usually alignments, as that just says what most of a creature type are. But I like the possibility, however small, of redemption for anything or anyone that wants it. Good vampire? Sure. Neutral Werewolf? Hey, he just wants to be left alone. Evil Celestial? Hello Izual.

Plus, as a DM, just think of how much fun you can have with your players in a setting where that's possible, Detect Evil doesn't work, and the Paladin's gullible.

Think of that, and then try to honestly tell me you don't want good demons to be possible.

 

There's always a problem with alignments, that's correct. Not only can't people always agree what's good or evil, lawful or chaotic, but sometimes they can't even agree if it's good/evil or lawful/chaotic.

 

You mean like people saying liars are evil?
Or saying fighting evil is good?

I have troubles determining whether my character is chaotic or lawful, but the good/evil thing is much clearer to me (, I think).

Anyway, back to the Paladin. You decided what you want to play yet? I'm quite interested in what you have in mind now.

 

Like deciding if theft is chaotic or evil. While with poor people who need every penny they have this is pretty obviously evil, I can fancy arguments for both versions when it comes to stealing from rich people. To me, it feels evil, but I can imagine an RPG thief being compassionate and giving his life for a stranger or some such.

 

Law/Chaos, Good/Evil are usually based the views of a society. If you were a paladin living in a drow city (mostly chaotic and mostly evil by our standards), your paladin would be viewed as chaotic and evil based on the values they hold dear.

The key to a good paladin is finding your patron deity, and look to carry out his/her values in your campaign. Also come up with some unique character traits of your own. I played a paladin that was terribly frightened of the undead, he would fight them, but the DM and I always had him fight undead at a -2 penalty to hit.

My pally would also grant quarter to anyone who asked, without exception. That usually annoyed the rest of the party...but it did give us a few long standing enemies that would constantly harrass us - The other downside to letting the bad guy live: they always try to take revenge.

I've also bad a gruff loner type paladin, that wouldn't show his true colors unless sorely pressed. He was willing to do "little evils" if it would advance the greater good of his order or his deity. So it all depends on how you want to play them...Just make it interesting.

I also heard a good paladin quote to think on:

"I'm Lawful Good, not Lawful Stupid."

Think about it. The strict rigidity of the paladin arhcetypes will almost always get you killed. Always seeking the strongest foe in battle, being the last to withdraw ALWAYS, challenging everyone to duels for the slightest offense, etc...It's been done and can be terribly boring. Try a different angle.

 

Aye, sorry for the long time.

Okay Now I've completely changed to guy. First he is an elf now. I thought it will be unique to have an elven paladin. He's a Paladin of Séhanine Arcdelune, (sorry I play in french Sehanine Moonbow for you english ). However I am not a 100% sure she is in Greyhawk. But Hey a player conviced the DM to be a cleric of Ilmater so.

The following material is taken from http://www.grey-company.org/Circle/seldarine/gods.htm

A paladin who seek wisdom, calm and serenity is okay in my book

That's also worth noticing. He his respectfull of the dead and spirit world.

A guide and a protector of those who travel, That still goes well with paladinhood. However I am not sure what Evermeet is...

Again batling undead very Paladin-ish.


He totaly dislike to have to harm other people, especialy elves. In fact he'll do anything to avoid fights. However is before everything an elven protector, he wouldn't refuse to help other races but elves come first. Undead are another thing he fight them ferociously since necromantic magic altered the bodies of people. He never use his detect evil ability, as he think everybody has it's chance. While generosity isn't the most wanted value of his goddess, he still came from the lowers parts of Celenes, so he know life can be hard.

In Battle he carry a blunt weapon as slashing one won't do a scratch to undeads. Since he is an elf his natural dexterity, he wear light armour.

He's most usefull skills will be diplomacy, sence motives and the such.

As for the feat I'm not sure yet, perhaps the one that give extra turn undead?

What do you think of him? I truly hope I created an peson, bot merely a generic D&D Character. We value roleplay very high.