tips on speed runthru? *spoilers*

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yeah, I know, sacrelege...

but I was stuck home with a cold this weekend, and thought I'd try to figure out a really fast run through PST... Tho I'm not crazy enough to do a speeddemoarchive type thing (imagine trying to get though all those long dialog strings, not to mention all the cut scenes...)

so, in this runthru TNO goes solo (tho Annah is momentarily useful as a teleportation device), and is almost exclusively a thief (tho I think it makes sense to develop his martial prowess by running through the lower ward and clerks ward as a fighter, becoming a thief again only before Ravel). I started out S12 D13 C09 I13 W15 Ch13, with most subsequent points going first equally into Dex and Str (up to 18, then a tattoo of might to 19), then a little into Wis and some into Con... Int and Cha are be good enough at 13 for most dialogs with a few frosty minty candies and kessegs when needed...

The thief levels and high dex are for stealth, pickpocket, and backstabs. The Str and fighter levels are for hitting power. While this TNO leaves behind the minimal body count, there are times (Ravel and Trias) where major offensive power is needed.

The total body count for the entire runthru would be something like this:

-zombie with key (first room)
-Soego (backstab him right away)
-a half dozen cranium rats (for Hargrimm)
-Ravel (tho I had to kill some treant things; if I could take her out faster it wouldn't happen)
-Trias (or nearly kill; tho I had to kill a couple undead horse things and curst guards, cuz the horse things were blocking the stairs; might be a way to only kill one though)
-a bunch of true shadows (in the NMP)
-Ignus (can the crystal be activated without fighting him?)

so, at last, my questions:

1) does TNO have to talk to Lothar to find out about Ravel? (I'm assuming yes, but it does mean that TNO has go through the sarcophagus bit...)

2) is there any way of abreviating the brothel quests, or does TNO have to solve all of them to get the blood sample?

3) any suggestions for a solo thief who wants to take Ravel and Trias down quickly? The one-use 10-100 damage punch daggers (hmm, should try them out backstabbing Trias ) are good for one encounter, but are there any other useful items I should consider...

4) has anyone ever worked out a quick and decent way of running past the shadows in the NMP? I always get surrounded when I try to avoid fighting.

 

You could probably save time using Morte to "teleport" to different maps, since you start off with him in the party. Morte is hard to hit and is resistant to damage, so he's an OK scout in a pinch (tenement of starved dogs barking, etc.)

I don't know if Lothar is mandatory, but I think he might be.

I could be wrong, but I think the only brothel quests you have to do are the ones related to Ecco's tongue.

Other than backstabbing (and hopefully running and hiding again, then backstabbing again) there aren't many options to quickly kill off Trias or Ravel. If you're taking fighter levels, you could try knot charms to up your strength and maybe one of the improved strength spells that boosts you past 18/00. A nameless one with 25 strength can clobber just about anything, but that requires you to either level, save money for tattoos, or both, unless you can buff yourself like crazy with spells.

 

Oh, the Annah "teleport" that when she first joins, you can immediately jump to the barking dogs HQ... Then I dump her. (Annah, welcome to dumpsville. Population: You.)

Actually, finishing isn't a problem with a solo thief; in fact I think it's absolutely the way to go. More party members means more dialogues, more administration, less xp, and less stealth, even with Annah. Plus, it's fun to be able to quickly breeze through Curst and free Trias without anyone even realizing you were there...

It would help to be able to bring Ravel and Trias down faster. I'm trying again with more fighter levels, and seeing whether that helps. I just make it to level 4 when I talk to Ratbone to become a thief. Then I make it to level 7 as a thief (avoiding leveling to 8) to talk to Korur and become a fighter again (and get *** in fists), then I do the minimum stuff to get the portal to Ravel's maze set up, which brings me up to level 9 as a fighter, so I talk to (Ployer and) Lenny to become a thief again before Ravel. So I meet Ravel as a Thief 8/9 (active) Fighter 9...

Arr, the "shards of fate" (one-charge 10-100 damage punch daggers) only works for fighters... and it would take too long to fight my way through the maze to Ravel. Will try one of the two expensive summoning items carried by Vrischka, maybe both (one for Ravel, one for Trias?)...

Also, in partial answer to #2 above, you don't have to do the whole Vivian/Marissa/Luis thing to get the blood sample from Kesai...

Another thought: is it possible to pickpocket Merriman for the keys to Delora's heart?

 

It's possible to pickpocket Merriman's keys.

The "Trial of Impulse" (vs. Ignus or Vhailor) must be fought.

The summoning items from Vrischika are rather weak against any of the tougher foes, but for soloing, they may be useful.

Backstabbing: remember that you can use the Dirty Rat Charms to become invisible in the heat of battle.

 

Hmm, a dilemma... I really like the idea of pumping up the fighter levels at this stage... I wonder if it's possible to threaten the keys from him, or whack him for the keys without the whole place going hostile...

Really!? How does that work... very useful trick, that.

Tried out the Ashes that summon trelons against Ravel. They actually turned out very useful...

So, the new Ravel tactic: 1) before talking, summon trelons; 2) after talking, immediately level up (should be something like Thief 12/13 (active), Fighter 9; with a 19 Str and 5x backstabs, this was very nice); 2) run south and around the corner and hide; 3) take out her summoned trigits (Ravel and the trigits are busy with your trelons... I think they have some magic resistance, so Ravel wastes some spells on them...) with one hit backstabs; 4) hide and repeat; 5) take our Ravel last; 6) hide and exit map... Will try timing this...

Also, Trias (even the maximized Trias, as I'm not doing any quests for the town) turned out to be super-easy with the Meteor Storm ring (and the extra fighter levels). Simply 1) hide; 2) backstab!; 3) meteor swarm; and 4) hit him a few more times til he surrenders...


****SPOILERS GALORE!****

So, the revised kill list:

-zombie with key
-Soego
-6 cranium rats
-Starving Dogs Mage (forgot to list this guy)
-4 trigits (summoned by Ravel)
-Ravel
-2 sohmein (blocking the stairway to Trias)
-3 or so sohmein (summoned by Trias, killed by the Meteor Storm)
-Trias (or nearly kill)
-a bunch of true shadows (in the NMP; still have to work out an efficient way through this level)
-Ignus

Also: people you talk to roughly in order of appearance (IIRC):

-Morte (ignore)
-Vaxis
-Ratbone
-Bish
-Pharod
-Hargrimm
-Soego
-Stale Mary (for Stories-Bones-Tell)
-Barr
-Annah
-Fell (a tattoo or two, and dabus speech)
-dead dabus
-face on the wall
-live dabus
-Korur (to become a fighter and get *** in fists)
-Baron Ployer (to talk to Lenny)
-Lothar (to hear of Ravel)
-Yves
-Delora
-Nenny
-Juliette
-Vrischka
-Splinter
-Ravel's stone
-Deionarra's stone
-Quell
-Montague
-Merriman
-the Sensate desk attendant
-Fin's father's ashes
-Ecco
-Kesai
-Kimaxi
-the advocate
-Lenny
-a godsman guard at the gate
-the old godsman with the legacy
-Ravel
-Trias
-Trias' sword
-Fjull
-the pillar of skulls
-Pox
-the Practical Incarnation
-the Paranoid One
-the Good One
-Deionarra
-the Transcendent One...

Any fat in there to be trimmed?

 

*more spoilers*

Oh, and some revised thinking about stats:

Str: Get it up to 18 (19 with tattoo) by Ravel's maze (for backstabs!); doesn't need to be higher.
Dex: Doesn't really matter so much; as a thief, TNO will have plenty of points to play with...
Con: Doesn't matter at all... TNO avoids drawn out fights...
Int: 13 is good enough; use kessegs to raise it to 18+ when talking to the Paranoid one...
Wis: Eventually important; should be very high (was it 23+?) at the end, as TNO will be forcing TTO to join him by threatening to undo himself by force of will.
Cha: Should be pretty good; it's easy to run out of frosty minty candies, and you need 18+ to lie to the Pillar of Skulls (and avoid a long cutscene).

So really, stats don't need to be micromanaged here: get Str to 18 and stop, perhaps Dex to 18 max, don't touch Con, and spend the rest of the points on Wis, Con, and Int (in that order...)

Edit:

Thanks, Montressor, I'll see how much time that shaves off!

Actually, now that I think of it, perhaps I *should* think more about micromanaging stats as a way of avoiding buying/using charms (and tattoos)...

 

The most handy way to do it is go to the inventory while the character is attacking someone, and use a Dirty Rat Charm. You'll become invisible, and therefore the next attack if succesful is a backstab. You don't even have to make the character attack again, he carries on fighting when you exit the inventory.

Not to nitpick, but the guy is called Byron Pikit... Ployer is from BG2.

 

@Susi- thanks, I'll try that out; it might be a very effective way of speeding up combat (but I'll have to figure out a fast way to procure them)... I wonder if I could even cut out casting meteor storm on Trias (super-long animation)...

Pikit, Ployer, same evil Black Isle Baron, right?

so, it turns out you can just whack (one hit) Merriman for the keys, and it neither turns all the sensates hostile, nor messes up the Delora quest... but it does mean that 5 angry harmonium officers will chase you around the clerk's ward (as soon as you go into a building, they stop and wait). They're easy to outrun tho...

@Montressor- so, in the second run through, the only merchants I visited were Fel, Vrischka, and Quell... I could cut out Fel, but I really like the +1 Str tattoo; otherwise getting to 19 Str from 18 takes 4 stat points... Aside from the plot items from Vrischka (choc quasit, fiend's tongue, deva's tears, and the frosty ale mug I don't need anymore) I bought the ashes that summon trelons for use against Ravel, and besides getting the Ravel info from Quell I bought frosty minty (Cha boost) and crunchy (+4 AC) candy... I might be able to cut out the candies...

Edit: And letting the collectors kill you in the trash warrens does seem to shave ~3-8 seconds from the time to get to Pharod (tho at the expense of 1000xp you can get from the Bish conversation; not so important I guess...) Strangely enough, if you talk to the first collector and kill him too quickly, the other guys don't go hostile... and it might be worth a second if you can to get his dirty rat charm... If I'm going to start really timing these things, I suppose I still have to play with the game settings to see if I can cut down on load times, so I get accurate timings...

[ January 10, 2006, 18:33: Message edited by: Bion ]

 

Update: revised starting stats:

S18/00 D9 C9 I9 W9 Ch16

The Str for efficient kills, the Cha to shorten the process of learning stories-bones-tell from Stale Mary.

The next 4 points into Int, simply to avoid half the damage from the dodecahedron (and having to stop and heal before Ravel); then 3 points into Str and 2 into Cha (in the pause after talking to Ravel). The next 12 points go into Wis, and after that it doesn't matter; I can clear all the stat checks I need without mucking about in inventory for a charm...

 

Update 2:

worked out a 16 segment runthrough that added up to 72 minutes 20 seconds, tho I haven't played with the game capture software yet (timed the segments with my cellphone stopwatch, so it's not super accurate). There's definitely some fat to be trimmed in terms of speeding up combat and getting through dialogs quicker, but hardware might also be an issue... there are *lots* of load screens, and I had to uninstall my GeForce card a while ago... some more RAM would help too... so it just might be possible to have the whole thing come in to around an hour...

and yeah, to answer the original 4 questions:

1)yes, TNO does have to talk to Lothar to finish the game. which means bringing him a skull (Soego's is the most convenient). TNO also has to talk to Ravel's sensory stone and Quell to know about the key to the portal to ravel's maze...

2)the fastest way through the brothel quests is: 1) talk to Yves to find out that Ecco knows something about Ravel (and grab her hanky and love letters; 2) talk to Delora to get her quest; 3) talk to Juliette to get her quest; 4) buy all necessary quest items from Vrischika; 5) solve all Sensate quests (Ravel's Stone, Quell's info, give the love letters to Montague, kill or pickpocket Merriman for the keys to avoid runaround, retrieve the journal); 6) talk to Delora to find out about Ecco; 7) talk to Ecco to find out about Kesai-Seris and Ravel; 8) talk to Juliette to find out about K-S and Kilmaxsi; 9) talk to K-S for her denial; 10) talk to Kilmaxsi to find about their father the cambion; 11) have K-S talk to the cambion and give you the blood sample.

3)Used the Dirty Rat Charms on both Ravel and Trias (bought from Mebbeth; unless you're an anarchist, other merchants only keep one, and I needed three). For Ravel: after the super long dialog, I ran around corner and hid (and saved). I then ran out and quickly summoned two sets of three tralons (ashes of pabulum) in the midst of Ravel and her trigits, and ran around another corner (hiding again). Without the tralons, TNO gets surrounded and creamed by trigits. Then backstab Ravel, activate a dirty rat charm, and repeat twice, hoping to take her out before she has time to cast heal. For Trias, backstab, use a dirty rat charm to backstab again, and use the ring of falling stars to cast meteor swarm (takes out most of his summons)... one or two more hits should do it then...

4)The fastest way I could find through the shadows involved killing 9 of them first, clearing out three of the four areas TNO transports to after using the war machines. All but one of the 9 can be taken out with backstabs (a good thing, cuz the speedrun TNO has a lousy AC and HPs), but it does require some running around...

[ January 17, 2006, 04:51: Message edited by: Bion ]