UN investigation reveals...

Remove all ads!

that Israeli commandos killed a US citizen *execution style* during the Flotilla aid incident. Execution style = Killed at point blank range while defenseless.

http://www.truth-out.org/un-fact-finding-mission-says-israelis-executed-us-citizen-furkan-dogan63609

Prepare for Zionist rationalisations in 3, 2, 1...

 

He was still semi-conscious after being shot twice in the head? You'd think that would have done it.

 

Someone got shot? That's sad, but what point is Mordea trying to make?

We're mostly simpletons on these Boards (don't deny it). We don't understand subtlety. (I'm not even sure I can spell it).

 

This reminds me of the guy who went into the bear enclosure at the zoo. He was mauled to death. His sister was wailing "He didn't DESERVE to die, it's so unfair!" My response (in my heart of course, because the sister was emotional) was "no one deserves to die, but what the <snip> did he expect doing something stupid like that?" Same thing here. Sure the Israelis are vicious bastards. It's a vicious world over there*. They shouldn't have killed him. But he was being an idiot and was in what he had to have known was a very dangerous situation doing a very dangerous and foolhardy thing. He may not have deserved to die but it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

*though why people focus on the mote in Israel's eye to the exclusion of the gigantic redwoods in the eyes of their Muslim/Arab attackers is beyond me.

 

LKD,
that this kid, or Rachel Corrie, or that kid that got her eye shot out, protested against Israeli policies makes them culpable for what they then received at the hands of the Israeli military, because to do so they had to go there? Because they invited it? Are you serious? As if participation in a anti-Israeli demonstration involves an implicit consent to being shot?

That logic is

It's the same crap as saying that a woman who goes down to town and gets raped is partially culpable, after all she could have stayed at home. And then, she wore a skirt - that's practically an invitation! That is blame-the-victim talk.

The Israelis have killed a lot of protesters, and a couple of them were US citizens and the Israelis are literally getting away with murder. Appalling.

Just as bad - in this they have US support: There is a sizeable (just look at the list of co-sponsors) number of US politicians who apparently have no interest in protecting the lives of US citizens - or investigating the cause of their deaths - when US citizens dare protest Israeli policies. Then they are fair game.

They are not.

 

LOl, this article is supposed to tell us what? that people were shot at point blank range? It was a fight at point blank range, everyone was shot at point blank range.

we also have a video showing the isralies being set upon the instant they landed, before they fired a shot.

I have always been taught "If someone hits you, you hit them back ten times harder" and I will teach my kids the same

 

Well, since it happened in international waters, the demonstrators were defending themselves against pirates, not isreali troops in their own waters.

 

Would that be the video that Israel released? The one that they refused independent access to the original source.

And lets not forget all of the other video/images that Israel has refused to release that are on all of the cameras that they have illegally taken.

 

Ragusa, I've made my feelings on this clear before. If I go down to the most vicious part of New York City at midnight and wave around $2000 saying "whoo hoo I'm rich and all you bastards are poor!" and then get robbed, isn't it reasonable for people to say "you did something really stupid, dumb ass, and maybe they didn't have the right to rob you but you should have used some <snipping> common sense." I mean, taking common sense precautions is something we shouldn't even have to mention. That goes for women wandering around similar areas, alone and drunk. Does it give their rapists the right to rape them? Of course not. I'm on record as advocating the death penalty for such bastards regardless of what she was wearing. That doesn't change the fact that she acted stupidly and should have taken steps to protect herself from criminals. It's why we have locks on our doors, for God's sake, because while we all agree that no one has the right to enter our homes and steal our stuff, we also know that not everyone follows the laws and that we should take some responsibility for our own safety and protection.

Same thing here. I acknowledged that they were wrong to kill him, but you go into what amounts to a war zone (legal definition be damned), tweak the noses of some pissed off soldiers, and then act like it's so un-fricking-believable that they killed you? Gimme a break. The guy was playing with fire and now people are acting like it was totally unforeseeable that he got burned.

 

Its hard to refute video evidence

access to the video was never refused, it shows men absailing from a helecopter onto the deck, and then having their arses handed to them by a mob of men armed with steel poles

there has been plenty of video footage released from the ships, which has shown... nothing. on top of your argument, what footage has been illegally taken? what law prevents forces siezine vootage of their activities? have you ever seen any video footage of british intelligence forces activities?

we already covered this in the thread about the flotilla, the blockade action takes place outside Isralies waters, they can stop any ship which shows intention of violating said blockade before it even enters the blockade zone.

I would also go a bit further with "who gives a S**t what the UN thinks?" since the UN only ever condems everything, the US didnt think it credible when the UN said " there are no weapons of mass destruction in iraq"

Lets also take into account, the UN member states which ratified the annex which has been sighted for this article:

note... how the parties in favour are generally pro palestine

 

LKD,
callousness aside, there is another problem with your argument:

When you say they had to expect to be killed during a protest against Israeli policies, i.e. get burned in your words, then you say that this is a normal consequence of protesting against things Israel does in Israel and/or beyond.

If it is a normal consequence, and indeed was to be expected and nothing new and extraordinary, so these kids have no one to blame but themselves, then you say that 'burning people' is the Israeli way of dealing with protest.

I don't think you wanted to say that.

 

[

Really? Or are you just being ironic?

Sounds to me like the UN was right, unlike the US "experts."

Yeah, it wouldn't say much for them at all, IF it were true, which it probably is not. They are much better than that, at least I would like to think they are.

 

And right on key, the Zionists start to rationalise Israeli brutality away!

You might need to go back to school to brush up on your comprehension. It's not the fact that he was shot at point blank range, so much the fact that he was shot at point blank range *while lying on the ground semi-conscious/unconscious after having sustained a head injury (ie. while being defenseless)*. He was apparently killed execution style (at least, that's what the investigation found).

That's cold blooded murder, and I'm shocked that a number of people in this thread are still trying to worm their way out of holding the IDF to any sort of accountability. This guy wasn't a filthy Palestinian, he was an American citizen, folks. Aren't some of you guys Americans? Aren't you upset that an investigation suggests that Israel just murdered one of your citizens in cold blood? I wonder what the response would have been had it been a dirty A-rab who had blasted a defenseless US citizen in the face?

What the hell did the Israelis ever do for you that makes you kiss their ass so much?

 

I served as an intelligence operator for 6 years with the British forces, it would be impossible to prove the circumstances of the death under those curcumstances and based on this thin information, this is nothing but speculation.

probably why any modern civilized country refused to ratify this annex

quite simply... it is bollocks

 

Shoshino

To wit: The UN were right. As they said, there were no WMD in Iraq, as Iraq had discontinued its program and the UN inspectors had, very successfully, destroyed its remainders.

The Bush administration chose to 'not deem that credible' because the assertion that Saddam had WMD was to be the foundation of their official casus belli for Iraq, as decided on September 22, 2001. Facts had nothing to do with 'deeming the UN not credible on Iraq's WMD'. It was all about political expediency and perception management.

In the case of the Israelis and the UN probe into the Gaza flotilla, never mind what one can prove and cannot prove, it is clear that the Israelis used excessive force. That they killed that kid is a result of the tactical approach chosen.

The Israeli refusal to allow the UN access to all the footage (that the Israelis made and confiscated) is not a surprise. The Israelis try to avoid more negative fallout, and the more unedited footage comes out, there will be negative fallout. The US is with Israel on this, because, as always, there is massive domestic political pressure on the US to oppose the probe. The Israelis have in the past not cooperated with probes into their excessive conduct. Why would they now? The Israelis are also all about perception management. They have for that reason only released carefully edited video and footage.

For their choice on how to stop and take the boat the Israelis are fully responsible. Period. Nobody forced them to do this. It was their (rash and ill considered) choice.

Now if you think that the protesters get a pass - well that's how we treat protesters, they have a right to dissent, and a right to protest things that they cannot reconcile with their conscience. When the Russians crushed the 1956 Budapest uprising pretty much everybody in the West considered that an outrage. When the Chinese crushed the Tienanmen square protesters, the world considered that an outrage. When the Iranian government whacked up the green protesters, pretty much everybody considered that an outrage. But when the Israelis shoot up a boatload of Palestinian activists, clearly the people on the boat are terrorists, and they clearly had it coming ... hardly.

I know repression and oppression when I see it. I don't like it. The US have this admirable motto for one of their military units ... 'de opresso liber' ... it expresses a laudable sentiment. The way regimes treat dissent with and protest against their policies tells a lot about them. The Israelis treat both badly.

 

The forensics expert disagrees. All evidence suggests that the individual was shot while lying on the ground semi-conscious. I would argue that at the very least, further investigation and a trial is merited.

Oh wait, what am I saying? These are 'God's Chosen People (TM)' who were 'Holocausted'. Obviously they can do no wrong. It's all the dirty A-rabs fault for attempting to deliver humanitarian aid to an oppressed people.

 

I can't believe how you've all taken Mordea's bait on this one.

What is a Zionist anyway?

 

It was not a trap. That's nonsense. The Israelis were not deceived. A trap is "any device or plan for tricking a person or thing into being caught unaware". That'll do.

The organisers of the flotilla not only announced their objectives and their destination port and their cargo in advance, they also did so quite openly. Indeed, they aimed to get maximum publicity for that. The participants also announced their intention to resist, again, openly. If a trap is something that lies there in open sight, is known to you and you walk into it anyway - that's just stupid. And it is certainly implausible to claim deception. If Israel was caught unaware, it was because they chose to ignore amply available information. They simply acted rashly and ill considered.

However silly all that trap talk is, it serves a purpose. The meme enables Israel to portray those who set the 'trap' – the flotilla – as aggressors, while the Israeli army was, quite unfortunately, a passive, innocent victim of the hostile conspiracy. Not so.