Uncanny dodge and the improved version

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OK, I have a question about these two abilities. With Uncanny dodge, a character keeps his dexterity bonus when he would normally lose it. Thus, he becomes immune to sneak attacks from being flatfooted or when attacked by an invisible creature in either melee or ranged battle. The improved version says that he also cannot be flanked, which removes some penalties and renders him immune to a sneak attack by a rogue UNLESS THE ROGUE IS 4 LEVELS OR MORE HIGHER THEN HIM. (Pardon the emphasis.)

Now my question is, would it not be logical to say that if a lone, invisible rogue at lvl18 is attacking a 13 level barbarian, he would also be able to sneak attack that barbarian? As I read the rules the barbarian still does not lose his dex benefit and so is totally immune to sneak attack under these circumstances. I can MAYBE see him being able to avoid melee attacks from an invisible attacker but not ranged ones or ranged attack spells.

In addition, what if the barbarian is stunned? Does he still keep his dex bonus? As I read the rules he does, but that seems once again illogical to me. Has anyone else looked at this before? (I looked through 28 pages of this section and found bupkes on this topic.)

 

Uncanny Dodge does NOT make a character immune to sneak attacks. They can still be caught flat footed, and can still be subject to sneak attacks. The only difference is that the sneak-attacker has to beat the character's regular AC, NOT their Flat-Footed AC.

Also, if the Barbarian is stunned, Uncanny Dodge no longer applies. As the book says:
""However, she (The character) still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized."

The improved version means the character really is immune to sneak attacks via flanking. Other sneak attacks, such as the attacker being hidden, still work. Improved Uncanny Dodge ONLY stops sneak attacks that are made via flanking.

 

True enough, but does the entry for stunning say that a stunned person is immobilized? IIRC, it says you drop everything, can take no actions, lose your DEX bonus, and take a -2 penalty to AC. (I'll check the book tonight when I get home)

Also, the definition for sneak attack says that you get a sneak attack when your target loses his DEX bonus. It seems to me that if you keep your DEX bonus you cannot be sneak attacked.

Has this been errataed anywhere?

 

Sneak attack works "any time the target would be denied her Dexterity bonus."

My interpretation of this is that even with Uncanny Dodge, you can be sneak attacked, the attacker just has to beat your full AC rather than your AC without Dexterity.

As for stunning, if you drop everything and can't take actions, i'd say dodging is out of the question too.

 

Another thing that is interesting is the Ring of Blinking. When worn by a character with sneak attack and activated, all attacks are as if the opponent is Flat Footed. Again, the attacker would have to be 4 levels in the class(es) that grant Sneak attack.

What really burned my backside was when I saw a steady diet of Undead, Constructs and plants or other things that were immune to crits (and thus Sneak Attack) whenever I played my High level Rogue...

I made quick work out of anything else though...

 

I think UD prevents sneak attack by an invislble attacker, myself. It says:

"retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized."

The sneak attack ability says "The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target" .

The specific mention of whether the target as a Dex-to-AC bonus imo implies that anything else that causes a target not to lose their dex-to-ac also prevents sneak attacks which would rely on this condition. I would need to check the FAQ rulings to see if this has been answered, however.

 

Even with Uncanny Dodge, the character is STILL Flat Footed, they just have a higher AC.

 

CJ is correct throughout this

Uncanny dodge essentially makes the Flat Footed AC = Normal AC unless the character is unable to move, such as stunning attacks, paralysis, etc.

They can still be sneak attacked and the dex bonus they get towards it is representing a luck or experience bonus to the character. Or even just paranoia

WOULD people!

While inferring this usually stands as a safeguard towards people who would try and sneak attack people with no dex bonus on the pretense they're effectively flat-footed. The statement is also useful in this conversation...

If Uncanny Dodge had the description "Allows the character to add their dexterity modifier to their flat-footed AC except when..." there wouldn't be this confusion. Though this is what UD actually does.

 

Good, then. I think that the explanation is fair and should I ever get my group going I'll incorporate this explanation.