Unfinished Party

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I've got four characters I'm pretty satisfied with, and I'm trying to determine what my best options are for filling out the remaining slots. I realize I could just use these four alone, and I am considering that, but I want to have as much tactical variety/options as I can to keep things interesting through all of the draggy bits of the game (I've played through up to the end of Chapter Four in the past).


Half-Orc Fighter 4/Barbarian X
Skills: Intimidate
Feats: Axes 2, Dodge, Axes 3, Power Attack, Improved Critical, Cleave, Heroic Inspiration
Concept: Obviously, this character is all about killing. He will be the party's primary tank.

Aasimar Fighter 4/Paladin X
Skills: Concentration
Feats: Swords 2, Luck of Heroes, Swords 3, Improved Critical, Power Attack, Cleave, Heretic’s Bane, Fiendslayer
Concept: With the saving throws boosted by having 20 CHA, along with the innate elemental resistances of the Aasimar, this character should be nearly untouchable by magic, and as a result be a fantastic mage killer. She will also tank, and eventually make use of the Holy Avenger.

Tiefling Rogue 1/Conjurer X
STR 8 DEX 20 CON 12 INT 20 WIS 10 CHA 8
Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Knowledge, Spellcraft, Disable Device, Open Lock
Feats: Crossbows 2, Spell Focus (Multiple), Combat Casting, Spell Penetration
Concept: This one is really more of an RP oriented build for me. I wanted to merge the tactical, every-tool-has-it's-use flavor of the Rogue with the highly versatile spellbook of the Wizard, hopefully resulting in an awesome situational augment to the party.

Human Morninglord
Skills: Concentration, Spellcraft, Diplomacy
Feats: Combat Casting, Maces 2, Sub-Vocal Casting, Spirit of Flame
Concept: This is another RP directed character. I am very fond of Lathander, as well as the idea of a Morninglord adventuring through the Dale, bringing hearth-like warmth to an otherwise cold and barren place.

These four sit so well with me that it has proven difficult to come up with any additional builds. It is plain to see that this party would do well to have a Sorcerer along, but I can't make an opening in terms of inner-narrative for one. I was thinking, perhaps I should take a Druid of some sort. I think a dedicated Sniper would be fun to have, so maybe an Arcane Archer type of build, like a Fighter 4/Wizard X could work? You might think with two Wizards in the party I would be at a loss for scrolls, but seeing as the Conjurer has Evocation as his barred school, this character could scribe those instead. Am I missing something? Are a Rogue 1/Conjurer X, Morninglord, Fighter 4/Wizard X, and Druid sufficient as far as offensive spellcasting goes? Are they redundant even? Please advise!

 

powergaming advice:
yes a sorcerer is the most important one to add, just use your imagination for the back story.
Might i suggest you create a battlecleric as the 6th character, and put him on the frontlines? Having 2 characters which can eventually cast Raise dead and Resurrection makes life a lot easier, no more hassle when your cleric dies.
A battlecleric focuses on life stats, not wisdom, because cleric spells benefit little from high WIS. Here's an example of my battlecleric:
NG female Drow ClericX/Fighter4, 18-18-16-5-18-5 (improve CON on leveling up, use items to boost WIS to 20+). You can take 1 fighter level early for the proficiencies, and wait with the other levels till you have the spells you need.
A druid is underpowered unless you install mods which improve druids:
~SETUP-IWD2-EASE.TP2~ #0 #20 // Alternate Shapeshifting
~SETUP-IWD2-EASE.TP2~ #0 #19 // Additional Druid Spells
MindChild's customdll fix: enables shift-click any spell to a corresponding Summon Animals spell.
Even then, a sorcerer is a better spellcaster, but the high level alternate druid shapeshifts make it a powerful warrior. A modded druid can cast Stoneskin, and a few offensive arcane spells too.

 

Sorcerers >> all. Do you know that if you level a Sorcerer up in the middle of battle, you can immediately use the bonus spells/casts you get with that level? That fact alone leaves Wizards gaping in the dust.

 

Two sorcerers.

 

Your conjurer and cleric should are powerful enough to handle the spellcasting in the game, so you can even add two barabarians without getting too deep into trouble.

I'd consider adding a bard. Because of his powerful songs all other characters will do far more damage and have far better saving throws, because of the good bard script you don't need much micromaning for him to be effective. Even without his spells he'd be worth taking.

A druid is nice too. He starts weak compared to the cleric but will become very effective if you use him properly. My druid won the important battles for my party.

If you take a sorcerer he'll dominate your party if you powergame him.

If you add a fighter4/wizard I recommend taking transmuter or diviner as specialist class, your conjurer can take the forbidden spells.

 

You can combine paladin and sorcerers, since both rely heavily on charisma. If you do that, its best to take more than one paladin level, and aim the character as more of a spellsword than a bombardier to get the most out of the paladin levels. Otherwise, you are better off with extra sorcerer levels. A Paladin 4/Sorcerer X might be useful, although I tend to avoid arcane spellswords myself (I prefer my arcane magic users to remain at the backline casting offensive spells, buffs and debuffs).

Another good thing to do is to add a monk level to a cleric or druid - not only do you get the evasion feat for free, but you also get a bonus to your AC based on your wisdom.

I was thinking about a ranger 1 (for two weapon fighting)/druid/rogue. I see the character as a woodsman that is quite sneaky and can backstab. I'm not sure what the ideal balance of levels would be, or if the rogue levels are worth it (extra druid spell levels would probably be more useful than the odd sneak attack die).

EDIT: Great choice on the Lathander cleric, I always take a solo Lathander cleric, partially because I like Lathander, also because their turn undead turns any encounter with undead into a joke.

 

I appreciate the power that a Sorcerer would bring to the party, I simply don't like the class from an RP perspective. It might have something to do with the fact that I am a an egghead who doesn't like other people being held to higher esteem for charisma in place of intelligence .

Anyhow, I have always loved Druids in RPGs, so I will definitely take one of them. I may even install the spell mod that makes them more equivalent to Sorcerers. What is recommended as far as a build for one? I have seen builds mentioned in various places of Barbarian 1/Druid X, and Monk 3/Druid X. In terms of my lineup, do you think that either of these, or perhaps a pure Druid for earlier access to offensive spells, makes the most sense?

As for the Bard, that is something I will have to think about. My concern is that, as much as possible, I want to succeed through my own strategic control of the characters, rather than through passive buffs or abilities.

Is there a reason dedicated Sniper builds don't seem to be popular? It would seem to me that some reliable, low maintenance ranged damage from a character with various bow feats would be quite useful. Especially for a group which already has all of the primary party roles covered.

 

archers are weaker than melee characters for sure. but they still have a use as far as i'm concerned. what i do is have everyone in my party proficient with a bow/crossbow/sling and they use that as soon as they see anyone. then once they get close enough i switch to melee weapons and hack them to bits. basically my sorcerer and my druid are my dedicated archer once their spells are not needed or are spent.
as for dedicating a "whole" character to being an archer i wouldn't do it personally simply because i already have everyone in my group using missiles as i said. i don't need a 3rd "dedicated" archer. the druid and sorcerer work fine. as i mentioned, your definetely going to do more damage with melee

 

Umm... lol? Buffs and character abilities are a very BIG part of tactics and strategies. Otherwise, what do you think those 200+ spells are for? Character control is one thing, but a 20~ AC Paladin is STILL going to get slaughtered by a Slayer Knight of Xvim in a 1-on-1, no matter how much of a just and pious good guy he is. Maybe early on you can cut the buffing, but as the game progresses it becomes more and more essential. I'd love to see you try Isair and Madae without buffs/abilities.

Sniper builds are a cool idea, but impractical for the simple reason that ANY half decent arcane caster or melee warrior can outdamage them pretty easily. Its ok for your party, as you say you have all roles covered, but otherwise they're useless. The only sniper builds worth the bother revolve around using Big Death as the ranged weapon, since you get to use the 1.5*STR damage bonus applied to 2-hand weapons.

 

Wizards and Druids. No party is complete without them! Bards are useful occasionally but you can multiskill your rouge for that.

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ooooooh..........monks are good too. they get some wicked abilities later on. Unfortunatly, i'm a 'see monster, kill monster' kinda gal so i tank my parties up as much as possible

 

I dont generally like monks because I prefer to have my characters using equipment, such as weapons etc.

It just seems to be too boring to have a character wearing no armor and using no weapons, just clicking on a monster and waiting for it to die. I'd rather have spellcasting and armor.

 

Yeah but later on they get quivering palm and such. Plus you can teach any character spells if you have the right code.
I know what you mean though, sometimes it's more fun to use equipment especially in some of the harder fights

 

Who said Monks can't use equipment? Ever seen the sheer defensive power of a pure Monk with Shifter's Boots and Reflective Short Sword? Toss in some stuff like Sunfire Talisman, Swing from the Masts, Brazen Bands, Every God's Ring, Dwarven Ogre, Tymora's Loop, and see if anything can even TOUCH a Monk. Spell Resistance and Improved Evasion make enemy casters rip out their hair. And in case of emergencies, Empty Body is always there to bail your ass for a bit.
The only things a Monk can't use are armors, shields and martial weapons. Armors and shields aren't needed due to the WIS bonus to AC, plus a Monk's natural bonuses. And weapons are 99% of the time outclassed by the Monk's unarmed damage (it goes up to 1d20+1d8 per attack). Monks gain attacks faster than any other class as well. The only small problem you can have is having lower Ki than is required at a point, which is why you should keep an enchanted Short Sword at all times.

 

the best druid build by far is a lawful neutral monk1/druidX, perhaps with a ranger laevel later on so you can dual-wield and use most weapons proficiently in human form.
The reason that this one is so powerful is that the monk's armour class bonus from wisdom carries over to the shapeshift form. Then your modded druid can cast stoneskin on himself, shapeshift to a half-dragon form, and keep the AC bonus from his maximized wisdom! This one is very powergamey, perhaps cheesy depending on your criteria.
1 level monk already gives you the best that the monk class has to offer (Evasion feat, WIS AC bonus), so 3 levels is not necessary, just delays your casting class!
If you want the best possible character, install Mindchild's customdll fix, then your monk can wear robes and keep his WIS AC bonus.
About ranged weapons: try to see them as an option every one of your characters has, instead of a dedicated role in the party. In reduced-threat situations, i have a 6 man archery squad.

 

The best druid is a pure druid. There's only one character in the party who can get access to druid spells, spell access as well as the spell effects depend only on druid levels.
Spears and halberds are powerful weapons, for ranged you only have sling or dart proficiency unless you take an elf. Best feat at the start is rapid shot, dodge is useful too, best casting feats are GSF transmutation and scion of storms.

 

I've always done this as well, I just figured that Weapon Specialization: Bow, Rapid Shot, and Precise Shot, would add up to a dramatic difference to the other character's simply using ranged weapons without feats.

I had come to the same conclusion myself. I just figured that by the very nature of a Sniper build being dedicated, that character isn't doing much of anything else beyond firing his bow. So even if I neglected to use offensive spells for a few battles, or used up all of my spells and wasn't able to rest (in a big battle or in a dungeon where enemies kept spawning), as long as the sniper had ammo, he would continue that sustained, consistent damage from from afar. I suppose the Rogue/Conjurer with his 20 DEX and Crossbow Focus will be sufficient.

This is why I made sure to say “as much as possible” ;p. I have played all of the IE games (save for HoW/TotL) so I am well aware of the necessity of buffs, I simply want to rely on them less than I have in the past.

Though I am planning on installing the additional spells, I'm not sure if I will be installing the alternate shapeshifting, as I don't feel many of the forms make much sense for a Druid RP-wise. Will o' Wisp, or Treant, sure, but Verbeeg and Fomorian Giant? Half-Dragon is humanoid is it not? Like Sherincal? I could see full dragons perhaps, like in NWN (from an RP standpoint, obviously they would be overpowered in IWD2!), but not shapeshifting into a non-pure, half-breed, alternate humanoid form. Regardless, I really don't want the Druid to be overpowered, as if it wasn't already clear, sheer power isn't nearly as important to me as balanced fun and RP (which of course is personal and means different things to different people). I'm contemplating what would be more useful/fun for me, the Evasion and AC bonus of 1 Monk level, or the extra speed, rage and weapons of 1 Barb level, and leaning towards the latter.

 

The pure druid won't really be overpowered, try to understand: the makers of the game underpowered the druid class. It's like a bard now: a 'jack-ass-of-all-trades'. It doesn't compare to the damaging spells a sorcerer can unleash, and is competely dwarfed by the overpowered clerics, since it misses the most important healing and buff spells. That's why there are so many mods improving the druid class.
The advantages of a level monk (WIS AC bonus! Evasion!!) are more valuable than the 4 hitpoints, weapon proficiencies and bit of extra speed a barbarian level offers. But there's no reason you can't eventually take a level of both classes, just make sure to have a lawful neutral druid.

 

The druid gets the same heal spells as clerics doesn't it?

 

The most important healing spell is "raise dead", druids don't get it.

 

Yes but I have a cleric on board so that isn't an issue. However, if we really think about it, what possible paradoxical logic allows for a Morninglord of Lathander, the destroyer of undead, to cast the spell Raise Dead?!

But you omitted what is probably the most valuable ability that a barbarian level offers; rage, which is suppose to be quite powerful while in dire-bear form.

I am still unsure of whether or not this outweighs the Evasion/Wis AC. However, what the Druid seems to lose by taking a mix-in is offensive capability, by having later access to the offensive spells that this party may have need of in the absence of a Sorcerer. The defense bonus doesn't do anything to make up for that, instead it augments his survivability, whereas the rage does add to his damage capacity. Hmmm.

But remember that I am making use of the additional spells mod, which helps the Druid compare more to said damaging Sorcerer spells. As for the healing, we should remember that (at least AFAIK) the Druid was never intended to be equivalent to the cleric in terms of healing ability, nor the Wizard/Sorcerer in nuking ability. Rather, it is a class which mixes elements from both of these roles, but infused with the nature theme, and with useful utility. It's greatest strength (conceptually, at least) lies in its flexibility, versatility, and adaptability.