Vow of Poverty, Book of Exalted Deeds

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I was browsing through this book earlier, and came across a part that I had apparently skipped over earler. Voluntary Poverty.

At first, this looks bad. You may own no magical items whatsoever, just a simple weapon, some clothing and enough food for one day. Then I thought "A monk doesn't need weapons or items much anyway" and combined the two. When built accordingly, you can even make this combination VERY powerfull. (Insanely even, but no DM would allow that. Touch of Golden Ice would have to be limited use per day. Dealing 1d6 Dex damage at first, and 2d6 damage later on whenever you hit an evil creature, is with a monk, who has to touch people to hit them, of course very overpowered.)

When say, roleplaying a Monk of Ilmater (Broken One) picking the Stigmata feat (which allows you to heal other's wounds at the price of temp con damage) allows for some great roleplaying. (that you actually suffer for healing someone)

Of course, the bonusses to AC (which are for example +6 AC Bonus and +1 Deflection, for a lvl 6 Character) quickly make the poverty monk rank high in AC. I just built one, not even focussed on AC, and at lvl6 he already had 22 AC. (Like he were equipped with Fullplate and a Large Shield, both magical ) Though I'm not sure wether the monk's bonusses would stack with every bonus from the poverty feat.

Here's what I mustered up today: (Using Pointbuy 30)

Human Monk of Ilmater (lvl 6)
Lawful Good

Str 14 +2
Dex 12 +1
Con 14 +1
Int 08 -1
Wis 16 +3
Cha 14 +2

HP 20 (+5d8)
AC 22
Speed 50 ft

Saves
Fort 7
Refl 6
Will 8 (+2 vs Enchantment)

Attacks
Unarmed +9/+6
Flurry +7/+7/+4

Feats
Sacred Vow (Human Feat, +2 Diplomacy, prereq for Vow of Poverty)
Vow of Poverty (1st lvl, allows following bonusses at Clvl 6: AC Bonus +6, Deflection +1, 3 Bonus Exalted Feats, Endure Elements, Exalted Strike, Sustenance)
Weapon Focus Unarmed (3rd lvl, +1 with unarmed attackrolls)
Improved Initiative (6th lvl, +4 Initiative)

Exalted Feats/Bonusses
Endure Elements (Immunity to hot and cold environments between -50 and 140 Fahrenheit)
Exalted Strike (+1 magical bonus on attack and damage rolls)
Sustenance (Character doesn't need to eat or drink)
Intuitive Attack (Bonus Feat, Uses Wis modifier for attackrolls)
Nimbus of Light (Bonus Feat, +2 Diplomacy and Sense Motive, prereq for Stigmata)
Stigmata (Bonus Feat, Heal other's wounds by taking temporary Con damage. Healed: 1 point/wounded's level/2 Con of Monk.)

Monk Special Abilities
AC Bonus (+1 from Monk6)
Unarmed Strike (No attacks of opportunity when fighting unarmed vs armed.)
Flurry of Blows (One extra attack, all attacks suffer -2 penalty.)
Stunning Attack (6x/day [DC10 + half monk level + Wis mod])
Evasion (No damage on succesfull reflex-save.)
Deflect Arrows (Reflex DC20 [+arrow enchantment], Free action.)
Still Mind (+2 Savingthrow vs Enchantment.)
Slow Fall (When within arm's reach of a wall, negate first 30ft of damage.)
Purity of body: (Immunity to all diseases [except magical diseases])
Improved Trip (Automatic attack on succesfull trip-attack)

Personally, I think this is pretty good. Of course, you can make things much worse by doing the usual multiclassing cheese but I've tried to refrain from that.

[ April 03, 2004, 14:36: Message edited by: Faragon ]

 

Heh, i was browsing through Wizards forums two days past. There was a topic there, min/max monk i belive. I was looking for any stuff about monks and i surely found those 10+ pages of powerplaying monk builds.
One of them was Vow of Poverty monk. Of course they threw lots and lots of Prestige Classes and feats from other supplementary books. In any case, it's said that if a monk takes Vow of Poverty (Vow of non-violence (peace perhaps) is supposed to complement this well), he/she will be awsome up to about lvl 18. Then various creature resistances prevent you from bashing things as good as before.
*shrugs*
I dont know much, i'm just saying what i read.
Suffice to say, i got quite lost in all those abbreviations and closed the whole thing. As well, it might give you awsome power at low to mid level monks, but it surely restricts your roleplaying options much.

 

I don't agree with that last line. Roleplaying is what you make of it. A character doesn't have to get all his roleplay inspiration from his class. For example, there's interaction with NPCs and PCs. If you keep that limited to what your class dictates, this makes nearly ALL classes restrictive in roleplaying opportunities.

I don't see how swearing a vow of poverty limits your roleplaying abilities, any more than picking say, a paladin's code or even certain alignments.

 

What i'm saying is that if you're building a charactacter to be powerful, and making his personality&goals&... a second priority, that does limit you.

Aynway, lets say we have a monk and another monk who took this vow.
The first monk saves some rich man's doggie. The noble asks him to wear a magical pendant as a reward. The first monk can accept or refuse.
A monk with the Vow must refuse.

Or some magical item that alters appearance(i belive it's some mask). The mission is getting news in to besieged monastery. A normal monk will simply don the mask and walk in the camp and to the monastery. Vowed monk will have to fight/sneak/bluff his way in. It does limit him.


So, sure you can roleplay excelent with a Vowed character. But you dont have as many choices anymore. That makes paladin more restricted too. It simply reduces the quantity (surely not quality) of character concepts.
A rogue on the other hand can be completely whatever he wants.

 

I never said I was building to make him powerful. Hell, I've mentioned some things that should be changed to PREVENT the character from being overpowered. I did the exact opposite of what you're implying I did. I've not build this character in any way to become "uber". The feats and statdistribution is all wrong for that. 14 Cha and 12 Dex? How does that qualify as trying to uber a monk? Or Stigmata? Nimbus of Light?

It limits him in his actions, as he's not as free to do stuff as someone else. However, this is exactly what creates roleplaying possibilities. Trying to talk your way into a besieged monestary, would, for a Monk of Ilmater, be great! "I want to be there to tend the wounded, to ease the suffering. If you'll let me through, I will see to your men first as well. I see you've got a bad cut on your arm, if you'll allow me, I can ease your pain." (For example) Simply putting on the mask and walking through the camp to the monestary doesn't create any roleplaying possibilities.

Second, wearing an amulet someone gave you as a reward isn't roleplaying. You take the amulet, put it on your neck, that's it. Actually talking and explaining why you can't keep it yourself is roleplaying. Telling him you'll take it if he insists, but that he should know that you will donate it to a temple or charity, that's more roleplaying than simply taking the amulet and saying thanks.

Your character may not have the same choices as a completely free character, but that doesn't mean it has to limit your roleplay possibilities. In fact, I believe that in a lot of situations, not being able to take the easy road will lead to much better roleplaying than simply doing what's easiest.

 

About building character with his power in the first place. I wasnt talking about your character. I just wanted to say in general.
Of course i should've said so, since the topic is about this specific Vowed monk of Illmater. I suppose i was just a little pissed off seing all those pages of purely powerplaying builds on WotC forums, with no regard to roleplaying.

Actualy the only thing i said about limiting roleplaying is this:

See, what i wanted to say here, is that you cant go and rob a house for a magical items that's rumored to be inside = exactly what you said:

This is it. Roleplaying can be way better than other characters, simply because of following your monk's tougher path, where others would simply take the amulet, finishing the story.
A misunderstanding most of all.

 

Heh Here I was, thinking "What's Gothmog on today? He's making no sense"