Weapon Selection for My Party

Remove all ads!

Well, I restarted my play through with Sarelith last night. This time I'm going to do a couple of quests before I pick her up in an effort to gain a few levels before I go dragon hunting. I figure she would probably have some issues with doing the Mae'Var quest anyway (I've argued in the past that ANY paladin should have some major reservations involving several parts of that quest).

However, now I'm reassessing how I'm going to distribute the weapons in the game. Anyway, Sarelith comes with proficiencies in bastard swords, war hammers and sword and shield style. While that's fine for late SoA, and all of ToB, that's some pretty sucky options for the beginning of the game. In fact, I would argue that bastard swords are probably the WORST weapon class to start the game with, with war hammers not far behind.

My party consists of Keldorn, Mazzy, Anomen, Sarelith, Yoshimo (to be replaced with Imoen) and my PC Undead Hunter (named Aldeth of course).

Of those NPCs, the only no-brainers are Imoen and Keldorn. Imoen will use the Staff of the Magi and Firetooth. Keldorn will be using Carsomyr.

The plan for Aldeth was to dual wield Pitchwife and Kundane. As such, I placed my proficiencies in short swords, clubs and two weapon style. (As an aside, I generally like the Kundane option a little better than Belm, as there are hoards of decent short swords available early in the game, but hardly any decent scimitars.)

So that leaves Anomen, Mazzy and Sarelith for what to do weapon wise (I don't care about Yoshimo - he'll get whatever is available and like it) and due to the other selections we have conflicts in short swords and war hammers. My initial plan is thus: Since Anomen is the only one with proficiencies in maces, he'll get the IMoD. However, I will work on flails as an additional proficiency, and I expect that the FoA will eventually become his weapon of choice, and he will only switch to the MoD for undead. I currently have up to 5 people that can go into melee combat, which is a bit much. I picked up Mazzy when she was level 8, so I'm inclined to have her start working on axes. She can wield Azuredge (thrown) and eventually graduate to the AotU.

Now what to do about Sarelith? Once I hit ToB, it's a no-brainer that I'll dual wield Foebane with Crom Faeyr, but what to do before then? The best bastard sword I can think of that is readily available (and I'm using the term "best" in the most relative way possible) is the +1/+3 vs. Shapeshifters as a reward from the Slaver Quest. That's not very awe-inspiring. For war hammers, I can think of two - the one that's +2, with an additional point of electrical damage, and the one that's +1/+4 vs. Giantkin from the D'Arnise Keep. The only reason the +4 vs. Giantkin bears mentioning is because I think it stikes as a +4 weapon against things like Golems. Needless to say, I'm not particularly impressed here. Am I missing something obvious here? Am I going to be walking around with +2 weapons until late SoA?

 

There is a +2 bastard sword you can get from Ribald. And the searing sword in the underdark (+3). The Hammer of Thunderbolts is available pretty early. Give her proficiency in scimitars and/or long swords (there are a lot of good long swords) when you can. Watcher's Keep is available at any time. You can grab Foebane quickly if you're tough enough on the first level, Purifier on the third.

Anomen can easily be a powerhouse with FoA and Crom -- shift Saerelith away from Crom to Angurvadel when you can.

You may want to give Aldeth proficiency in two handed swords -- Flame of the North is available in spellhold, the silver sword is available after the underdark... AND since you have the item upgrade mod you should really look at the upgraded Hallowed Redeemer. All three paladins could have holy avengers with hallowed redeemer upgraded. The Sword of Averdeen can also be upgraded to +5. Giving her kundane (and a few *'s in two weapon style) would make Mazzy pretty awesome.

 

The hammer in D'Arnise is considered +4 when determining what it can strike so it is a fairly solid choide till you get Crom Fayer.

Isn't this the exact situation Weimer's 'Underrepresented Items' mod was made for? The vendor should have a selection of Bastard Swords and War Hammers ranging from +3 to +5 enchantment.

 

One other thing, giving your undead hunter proficiency in axes is a good thing -- the +3 to hit and damage really helps with Azuredge (just like giving it to Minsc make every vampire encounter much easier).

 

Hmmm... Not a bad idea that. However, I'm thinking of keeping Anomen as a single wielding character, simply because of the limited amount of proficiency points I'm going to have available for most of SoA. He comes with no points in either two weapon style or flails, meaning I need to earn 4 proficiency points in order to use them effectively, which is 16 levels. Ouch. Sarelith on the other hand only needs two points in two weapon style, so that's a much easier 6 levels.

Another thing I've thought of is it will probably be better to upgrade Azuredge instead of the MoD, because Anomen is the only NPC I have that will be able to wear the Amulet of Power, meaning that the NPP from the IMoD will be redundant.

Since the hammer in the D'Arnise Keep is +4 when considering what it can hit, that is clearly my best choice early on.

What is the definition of a holy avenger? Is the Hallowed Redeemer a Holy Avenger from the beginning, or is only a Holy Avenger once it becomes +5. I assume the third one you speak of is the Purifier. Again is that only a Holy Avenger once it's upgraded to +5?

 

Using the baldurdash fix pack, any paladin should be able to use the Amulet of Power (my paladin did). The +4 is only necessary on a few enemies (Kangaxx and Adamantite Golems are the only ones I can think of). The extra to hit and damage of the Hammer of Thunderbolts would be better in all other encounters (too bad it's not like the pnp HoT, which acted like Celestial Fury and could be thrown). The Blade of Searing gives extra fire damage and Foebane is +6 with respect to who it can hit (at least versus undead and outer plane creatures).

You are correct, the +5 Hallowed Redeemer would not be an official Holy Avenger (extra damage to CE, usable only by a paladin) -- it does not dish out additional damage to CE but is a paladin only weapon. It has the dispel on a hit of Carsomyr and retained the retributive damage strike. Still it's probably the third most powerful weapon in SoA.

Odd question here: does the improved Azuredge give negative plane protection after it leaves your hand?

Edit: I was just reading about Saerelith -- isn't 15 a bit young for an NPC. Especially a ROMANCABLE NPC. That's almost as bad as the incest mod....

[ July 11, 2006, 17:53: Message edited by: T2Bruno ]

 

I think it's a status affect (i.e., comes on the character portrait) and it does not blink on and off as the axe leaves and returns to your hand, so I'm inclined to say, yes, you still get NPP when throwing Azuredge.

The Hammer of Thunderbolts is definitely a good weapon, but I'm planning on rushing to Spellhold as soon as I finish Sarelith's quests to get Imoen. Also, when I said the Hammer in the D'Arnise keep was better, I was more comparing it to the other early options for bastard swords and the +2 hammer with +1 lightning damage. Plus, I need to do the Windspear Hills to get the Hammer of Thunderbolts, so it's not an "easy" starter quest.

EDIT: Don't get me started with Sarelith - she's an extraplanar creature too, so maybe 15 is legal where she comes from.

 

Ugh. I would've thought this discussion would've stopped at Saerileth's forum. Anyway...

In medieval times, people were married away at the age of 14 (maybe even as young as twelve, I don't remember), so 15 is above the age of consent. You may drag your modern notions of age of consent into the game, and that's fine, but stop b****ing about it and just don't play the mod. Or, better yet, make sure the romance doesn't start and just pursue the friendship track that the mod's authors have been so kind as to provide. Secondly, you don't have to have sex with her in the whole game AFAIK. For one thing, she's a paladin: no sex before marriage. And unless the author was an insensitive pr*ck, I'm betting there's ways to refuse if it did come up and not wreck the romace.

RE: "Incest" mods
Again with the modern values. Remember that in medieval times some people were forced to marry their (usually distant) relatives to keep the royal bloodline pure. There was no such tabboo back then, without the knowledge we have now of the effect of genes. Also, remember that they are not really your siblings, as much as they may call you <PRO_BROTHERSISTER>. Perhaps half-siblings on your sire's side, and most likely not even that geneologically since he was a GOD. If you've got a hangup on treating Imoen or Sarevok like a lover, that's fine, and again noone is forcing you to play the mod.

But on both occasions, I weep for your ability to stretch your roleplaying skills. Roleplaying does not mean one role every time, it means trying out new (sometimes bizarre) roles. Perhaps your PC and Imoen never got close as siblings, always playing mean-spirited pranks on each other as little children with crushes often do... Perhaps you deeply despised Gorion and cheered for the man that finally freed you from his smothering influence... Perhaps you had delusions (well, I suppose not delusions ) of godhood and think that pesky mortals are beneath your touch; only godspawn will suffice... (Also works for Chloe.)

If you can't handle it, fine, but don't poo-poo the mod because of your lack of imagination.

 

Fel, stop preaching. I've been role playing longer than most on these boards. I know what I like and don't like. I play games to enjoy myself and simply do not have the time to play a character/ethic standard that detracts from my enjoyment of the game. I haven't downloaded the mods and don't intend to.

Your view of role playing is not right for everyone -- it is extremely errogant of anyone to assume that their way is the ONLY RIGHT WAY to play. If YOU don't like the discussion of a mod, simply move on to the next thread. Insulting comments are not necessary.

[ July 12, 2006, 16:07: Message edited by: T2Bruno ]

 

As far as I'm aware the Forgotten Realms are not North America, nor is Amn subject to Federal law.

 

Overreacting a bit are we?? 15 years is legal enough in most places.

 

I think anyone can think what they want. If they don't want to play a mod in which you can romance 15-years old, it's foolish to try to get them to. No amount of "back then it was ok", will chance the fact that Bruno, or anyone else, may not like it.
I won't role play a raging, maniac, child molesting, all killing, raping psycho just because it would be new kind of experience.
Most people play because they enjoy it, so noone should force something they outright shun upon themselves.

 

Actually, it is you who are making that assumption. I didn't say my way was the only way to play, just that I pitied you for your inability to stretch your roleplaying skills. That's not to say yours aren't already formidable, but there are obviously things that are beyond your reach if you can't play any particular role, and to refuse to even try...well, it's obviously a block to stretching your abilities.

Agreed. ... So then where's your apology to the mods you defamed?

I'll assume you're referring to Luiz or Shaitan, because I already said pretty much the same thing in my post. What I have a problem with is people automatically dismissing mods as "bad" simply because they have one aspect that they can't stand. Given that the Imoen romance and upcoming Sarevok romance revolve solely around that aspect, but Saerileth, from what I have heard, is an excellently put together mod, and does not deserve to be lumped in with terms such as incest simply because the character's 15 and happens to have an optional romance track.

Everyone has limits to their roleplaying ability. Even I would probably have a hard time getting into that particular role if I played it to the fullest. But I'd still give it a try because I like to improve my skills, not use disgust as an excuse to shrug off the attempt.

Somehow, I don't see any of us reaching through the computer to download the mod(s) onto others' computers. And even if we could, it's not automatic that those romances will happen and continue by any stretch of the imagination.

As for people trying out things that they think they won't like...why the hell not? If you try it and find you really don't like it, the solution is simple: uninstall. With WeiDU it's a breeze. But to refuse to even try reveals a closed mind, and in Saerileth's case needlessly so.

I'll admit, I've a little problem with Saerileth's age too, mostly in regard to how innocent she's supposed to be indicating that she is not mentally older than her form, as would normally be expected of people in such times. But I'm willing to give it a shot to see if I can get past it, and if I find I can't, I'll tell her to get the hell away from me (break the romance) and explore the other facets of the mod. And to say it one more time, just because I might have a problem with one tiny part of the mod does not make it crap.

 

Perhaps I worded it incorrectly. What I meant was that the person should not force himself to play something he doesn't enjoy.
And I still stay in my opinion that games are meant to be enjoyed, and if someone doesn't want to play some mod, he should not. Althought it's true that the mod could be actually good one, that possibility is not a viable reason for anyone.
It may be your opinion that everything should be tried, but it is not the same for anyone else. Some, like me, think that the main reason is to enjoy, not test anything and everything.

 

I can say definitively that she is very innocent. However, you don't know that she's 15 when you first meet her. Judging by her picture you can certainly tell that she's young, and you can probably assume that she's still in her teens, but it's not immediately evident that she's 15. In one of the lovetalks, Sarelith asks you why people look at the two of you together strangely, to which you eventually answer that some people think that she is too young for you (I'm paraphrasing here, I don't remember the exact conversation). It's at that point that she says that she is already 15, and that Charname at 20 isn't that much older than her. One of the options at that point is to tell her that she really is too young for you, which I assume will break the romance. I can't say for sure as I didn't pick that option.

Additionally, if you have Keldorn in your party, he questions your intentions towards Sarelith. However, if you say that your intentions or good, he doesn't have a problem with it.

Basically, what I'm saying is the mod is certainly not designed so that it's screaming out "You're romancing a 15 year old!" Further, you're already into the romance a bit before you even know she's 15, and there are options all along the way if you want to break it off, and you even have the opportunity to break it off for exactly that reason.

Exactly. I know a few people who will not go to a movie if there is a sex scene in it. They aren't saying that the movie is necessarily bad, and will even admit that there probably have been quite a few good movies made that have had sex scenes. However, they don't approve of those actions, and therefore would like to avoid that type of entertainment. I think the same goes for mods. They are a source of entertainment, but not everyone gets the same amount of enjoyment out of a given type of entertainment (just ask Hendak).

 

@Goli:
That's the thing, though. How do you know you won't enjoy the mod unless you try it? Sure, the Imoen or Sarevok mods probably won't be for you if you have a major hangup, as I've already said (repeatedly); not that that justifies labelling them as "bad" because YOU (or whoever) don't like it. But Saerileth's romance is only one small, optional part of a big mod. To shrug off the entire thing because of that is nonsensical.

Okay, somebody tell me WTF is going on. It seems like recently any time I say what I like, and then raise legitimate questions, people jump on me for "forcing everyone else to be like me". I still don't see anyone reaching over and forcing anyone to do anything a certain way.

To actually address this point: Again, you're limiting yourself, and that's the point I've been trying to get across. If you're not willing to try anything and everything, you're actually reducing the amount of fun that you could get if you find that you actually like something. (Perish the thought!)

You ever try calamari? Depending on how they make it, it may look disgusting (it is baby squid, after all), and if I'd known what it was I never would have tried it. But one year at the Taste of Madison, my dad handed me something that looked like a big onion ring, telling me that it was fried calamari. When I asked what that was, he said, "Just try it." I did and it was delicious.

The point of this anecdote being, you cannot know what you'll like unless you take a risk. If you don't want to, that's fine. But again it doesn't change the fact that you are setting limits, and thus almost by definition limiting yourself. Which is never a good thing; most especially when it's not warranted. Though if you really would dislike all portions of a mod because there is an optional romance for a then-adult/now-minor included, I think you need some serious help.

 

Agreed. I admit that I like this mod so far, but it's not because I'm some sicko who is getting off on the chance to romance a 15 year old. It's a well made mod. If you really have a problem with the romance part of it, play a female PC - then Sarelith won't even come on to you.

 

Fel, you were so quick to jump on the "how dare you complain because you don't want to roleplay shagging a 15 year old" bandwagon that you completely missed my first -- AND MAIN -- point. Fifteen is too young for a FIRST level paladin let alone one with experience (at least according to trivial things such as DM's guides).

Mod makers who choose to stretch or break the rules of the game and those who choose to incorporate ethics which are questionable to a VAST MAJORITY of the population should have thick skin. There are many player who will play such mods and enjoy them -- I do not enjoy roleplaying in either of those cases and choose not to waste my time doing something I will not enjoy.

Comments like 'lack of imagination' and 'pitied you for your inability to stretch your roleplaying skills' are over the line. Life experiences dictate what we enjoy -- for those who have not stepped far beyond their parents' homes, computer games are an easy way to try new things (albeit in a rather tame way). Many of us on these board have much more experience. We know what we enjoy and we have already been exposed to too many things we do not enjoy and find offensive. Not wanting to experience these things while playing a game has nothing to do with roleplaying skills or imagination.

Computer games offer no new experiences for me, I just play them to relax and enjoy myself. There is no computer game that has ever given the same rush (or rage) I've felt in my real life experiences.

 

That's a valid point. She joined up at level 10. It's extremely unlikely that at 15 she could be that level, even if she somehow skipped through the squire stages that most paladins have to do. Keldorn, who has been on mission after mission for the Order of the Radiant Heart for decades is the same level as she is.

 

Well, I'm sorry I missed that. But considering that you never actually made that point until now, I think I can be excused. With what you said, about her being "too young to be a romancable NPC", and Aldeth's subsequent reaction to it, it's pretty obvious what anyone else would think you were saying.

You do bring up a good point, and one that parallels another: How can she still be so innocent after being a paladin long enough to gain the level that she has? It's almost inconceivable. But then again, perhaps the tasks in her extraplanar stomping grounds weren't so bloody as those on Faerun.

"Lack of imagination" was tongue in cheek, as evidenced (I thought) by the smiley, and I'm sorry you took it as an insult. As for the second, the truth is hardly over the line, though perhaps I could have left out the "pity" part to make it nicer. I'd say your comments have been much more offensive, referring repeatedly to incest and pedophilia, with intimations that anyone who would play the mods would be doing it for those reasons.

/me taps the computer mic, "Is this thing on?"
I've already said, so many times that I've lost count, that mods that focus on those things probably won't be for you. Given your outright refusal, I really wouldn't think that the Imoen or Sarevok mods would be for you, and as I have again said so many times, you don't have to download it, and I certainly wouldn't advocate them.

But Saerileth is in a whole other category. It is not focused solely on the thing you despise, and that is even an optional component that you have to go out of your way to do! What I oppose is dismissing a mod simply because of one thing, which is not the whole mod and indeed doesn't even influence the rest of the mod if what Aldeth has said is any indication. Refusing to even consider it shows a closed mind, and again, is a barrier to stretching your roleplaying abilities. (Which says absolutely zero about what they currently are, barring perhaps that one situation is hard for you.)

Again, I simply can't help wondering at this. Numerous life experiences aside, everything new is a new experience. That's kinda the whole point of mods, really. No matter the similarities to other experiences, the nuances make it a wholly different experience. I've played the vanilla game several times now, and each time is unique. The quests may be the same, the weapons, the NPCs (though not the combo in my party), the enemies, the situations...but it always plays out differently. And as I try out mods, there's difference there too, altering way you play the game.

I suppose you could decide not to look for it for the sake of relaxing, and be perfectly happy with that. But that's not going to stop me from shaking my head at what you're missing. IMHO, even the mundane can be appreciated (an attitude which has saved me from slipping into complete insanity when forced to clean my bathroom or something else similarly "boring"). Wonder can be found in all things, and I pity everyone who does not see what I see. No doubt, you will pity me right back for the ADHD that allows me to think like that, but I'm fine with that. The question is, are you?

But, to repeat myself once more in the hope that it will be clear, my problem is not with you not wanting to try it; if you play games only to relax, then you're probably not going to want to bother with anything, much less something that has even the slightest chance of offending you. It's with the dismissal of it because of one small and avoidable aspect that I find ridiculously closed-minded.