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A group of Republican lawmakers plans to introduce a Resolution of War.

May God have mercy on the souls of the soon-to-be-dead.

 

These people would not support this movement if they thought it would endanger the lives of too many. I know most agree with that but it is true. No matter how corrupt or selfish the politician would not launch war knowing that everyone would die.

But if we are to get rid of these terrorists then t is good for the tally of people killed in the future by terrorists would be far more than the amount killed while destroying them.

Another point to consider is that unlike a country who you can place sanctions on, terrorists have nothing to do with the governements and will therefore continue to rise up even if we do destroy the ones around at the moment.

 

Agreed. Massacre is not the goal. Justice for the few who committed these acts is.

But the number of people capable of doing what bin Laden has (apparently) done is small. There simply aren't that many billionaire Muslims with fanatical followers. Bringing him down hard and fast WILL do some good.

After a couple of days, I no longer want those responsible dead -- although that is still the likely outcome. I want them locked up in prison somewhere where I can go visit. And maybe tattoo a star of David on his ass.

 

but what provoked this crime? ever thought of that?

 

Yeah, I thought of it. I posted about it in other threads.

It is utter insanity.

[Up yours] for implying that America deserved it in any way.

Tal, I'm thinking a nice solitary confinement cell -- perhaps in Dulles airport suspended above the walk way. Then every day from 10 am to 3pm (10 to 2 on weekends) they remove the cover so that everyone can see him in his little transparent box.

[This message has been edited by Shralp (edited September 14, 2001).]

 

I've got news for you...This movement is more popular than you might think. Make no mistake, America, and our policies against those that use violence to promote political change, will be altered from now on.

As far as I'm concerned, we should allow the use of military force to eliminate any group or state that aids, supports, finances, hides, trains, or does anything that promotes political change through violence and terror.

I am willing to sign up and join this fight. I am tired of this happening everywhere in the world; and it must end. This is not just an attack on America, it's an attack on all free and democratic societies, and you're naive to think otherwise.

There will be more blood either way...So it's time we take the fight to the terrorists and the nations that hide them. All the terrorists did was rouse the sleeping giant - Again!

 

All i can think of now is my children and how this will effect them. Being in canada does put us dangerously close to any retaliation the states may invoke. All i can think is that if this does escalate into a third world war me, my children and my indian are gonna run for the hills!! Thank god we have mountains and untamed wilderness close at hand. I picture the movie "red dawn" in my head.

 

Sir Bel,

That is rather a dangerous, sweeping statement. Firstly, The US was founded on the war of independence, which can be viewed as a similar act if you look back. Secondly, some freedom fighting can be viewed as just since the regimes they are designed to overthrow are oppressive, undemocratic etc.

Again I'm afraid we are back to perspective. One mans just fight is another inocent persons death. Tricky line to balance this one.

Also consider the underlying reasons for breeding such people:

The Taliban springs from the orphans of the Afghan war. Were the Afghan freedom fighters not just then, fighting the invading Soviet forces?

We happily armed Sadam Hussein during the Iran/Iraq war, now he's public enemy no 2. It would now be just to support any internal uprising, but who's to say they won't be tomorrows terrorists?

We need to understand and aid these countries so that terrorists are ostrecised by their own, not breed more through continued support for violents when it suits us. Long term policies maybe, but that is what we must try to do.

On a personal level, I will speak to support any reasonable action the US Gov't takes in this matter, even should it be retribution rather than justice. Some things have happened and whichever way I twist and turn it - They are unforgivable.

 

Viking you write:

This may well take decades to change!!! Meanwhile should we accept plaincrashes and buildings exploding each week in US and europe, while you discuss politics and talk of a better world without terrorism?

I beg to differ. I agree with Bush. There will be no difference between the Terrorists and those who harbour them. We must eradicate this evil and afterwards make peace. Innocents may die. Yes. But you are narrowsighted. What deathlosses wouldnt (or will) we see next if we continue to go soft on Terrorism?

Good and evil are only perceptions. I am sorry for you if you perceive US coming military actions and Sir Bel's Statement as evil. I don't

 

another asshole, shralp, ive said no such thing, of course you could be plain stupid.....

 

Nobleman, Sir Bel,

Don't be daft. I'm in no way implying that the US are evil or that reaction to this terrible deed is evil. Re-read my last para above. I do happen to believe in freedom etc. inc not getting bombed by fanatics.

Just be mindful that we in the western world have created, at least in part, the breeding grounds for these people to spring from. We must therefore target our efforts in also understanding how this can overcome.

There are fanatics everywhere, and for them we should spare no effort in bringing to justice. However there are also inocents everywhere, and we must ensure that our responses are not measured in history by matching inocent life for inocent life.

I hope that is a little clearer?

 

i think if the palestenians did it, they didn't distinguish between the people who were killing them (the israelians) and the people who support them (america). in the same way that america isnt going to distiguish between the terrorists, and those who harbour them.
the palestenians are driven to the edge. i heard an interview of a palestenian over the radio: "i see death everyday, all my family and friends are dead. it makes no difference to me now if america attacks us. everyday there is already gunshots and choppers."

 

Anger and outrage has bread fanatics blind to their own faults and the merits of others. A desire to avange the wrongs that they have seen done to them has strengthened their lust for their revenge. They do not see anything but the evil of those they hold responsible for the suffering of those they love, the country they love, or the families they love and have seen devastated. They will not listen to anything that does match thier own views of what should be done, and have even turned on their fellow country men for what they believe those countrymen feel, think and believe.
These people need to look within, without, and see the long term, not their selfish emotions lusting for the short. Vengence will always be had, and i can only hope the darkness in the human race is one day banished with the light of understanding and love.

 

Sorry Viking I was mixing this with a post by Arkados. This subject has been spread out on too many Threads.


I am certain that the US. will spare as many innocents as possible. The US army isn't a mindless killing machine. They will track down and kill all Terrorists they find necessary. Long term politics have been progressing since the cold war, to what use?

You say

So You say we gave weapons and money to Saddam Hussein? But Have US created religious wars for them? Have US told them to fight eachother? Have US asked them to use foreign aid money on weapons? Please elaborate on that statement?

[This message has been edited by Nobleman (edited September 14, 2001).]

 

I have to agree with Arkados on one thing. I think it's important that we not be guilty of the same intolerance and extension of guilt that the terrorists have. Let's not punish entire countries for the actions of their extreme elements.

 

No, Kevlar, I didn't confuse you with someone else. You posted the question "What provoked this crime? Did you ever think of that..." As if anything could provoke it. It is idiotic even to ask such a question because it is so obvious that nothing could possibly warrant the loss of so many innocent lives.

I agree that we should not carpet bomb Afghanistan or Lebanon or anywhere else. Instead, we untie Israel's hands. Let them defend themselves fully against Syria. And we demand that the Taliban turn over bin Laden once we have proof of his guilt. Not to some Islamic show trial that they're insisting on, but to a real trial that has nothing to do with Islamic law. If they won't, then we hit Taliban government targets and ask again. Sooner or later they will say "he's gone. We don't know where he is." But we should continue. Send in troops to take over the country so we can find him ourselves. Tell Russia they can have the Afghani territory they wanted back in the 80s. NATO is already activated unanimously. Pakistan is reluctantly allowing us to use their bases. Russia has bases in Tajikstan they'll let us use. There's a good chance India will aid us too. I don't think the Taliban will have much choice but to hand him over or force him out.

But I think what we're going to see is that it WAS NOT bin Laden. It was probably some splinter group, similar to the militant splinter groups that keep attacking in Ireland even after the IRA signs a peace accord.

 

I write this post because I was struck by one of the previous posts and a phrase used therein and what I view as a fundamental misuderstanding. It is absolutely and unequivocally false that the Taliban is the "orphan of the Afgahn war." Those who fought and bled for Afghanistan to throw back the Soviets are now bleeding in Norther Afghanistan to thow the Taliban and its despotic regime out of power. The citizens who are within the control of Afghanistan are not getting news of their potential danger via the television but rather through some broken down radios capable of picking up foreign broadcasts and word of mouth. Why? Because the Taliban has outlawed television as something springing from Satan and defying the Taliban in ANY way is death. Most new channels will not show the film captured by a French photographer of the public stoning of women for supposed adultery or young men for possessing the wrong books. The film is too brutal. I've worked in the Sudan and Pakistan as well as other nation throughout the world and I promise you that the brutality of the Taliban is unique. The Arabs who became the Taliban are not native to Afghanistan and they did not spend their time during the war against the Soviets on the front line but as money men and fund raisers. Prominent among these money men was bin Laden who may like to prance around on camera with a gun but privately preferred to wine and dine possible donors. The US mistake was not in supporting the Afghans and their attempt to stop the spread of "communism" but rather our mistake was in forgetting the men who somhow threw back the might of the Soviets and which allowed the young and vulnerable Afghan government to be overthrown by the den of vipers which controls it now.

 

I think you misunderstand me a bit. I'm not just talking about justice in this particular instance...I'm talking about ferreting out and destroying ALL groups that promote political change through acts of terrorism against the general populace. Not just the flavor of the day: Bin Laden & co.

Not only should we attack the terrorists that act violently, we should go after the financiers that back them and the countries that support them. Even those that support them here in America.

Clearly, our enemy feels that there is no such thing as a civilian in this fight, and we should take that stance as well when combating them. We should be as ruthless in our efforts as they are.

The world changed Tuesday, and for the foreseeable future - not for the better. Sanctions and admonishments are not effective. Forceable action will most likely escalate hostilities...But I don't see a way around it. These terror organizations are bent on the destruction of all free and democratic nations that value individual freedom and human rights. The USA is just the highest profile nation to hit, this could happen anywhere.

I for one, and hopefully my nation, have had enough. Enough of seeing the same senseless terror tactics used in the UK, Israel, Russia, and throughout the world! It's time to put a stop to it.

 

According to U.S. AID, the U.S. has given over $117 million to Afghanistan in this year alone.

Hardly sounds like abandonment.