What for a little peace . . .

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I've been reading through some of the posts about Taliban, Afghanistan and the state of the world in general and it strikes me as ironic that people who care about what is happening are bickering over whom to blame, etc. etc.

What for a little peace! So much has been shattered by the WTC and Pentagon bombings. It signals a watershed of the end of our age's innocence ... I would like to believe that the majority of people on this planet would love nothing more than to live peacefully.

However, when one puts in name-calling, blaming, denial, it sounds so much like the greater conflict out there. Let's not be like that, people. Everyone is entitled to their own emotions, but no one has the right to spread venom simply because he or she feels like it.

Wars at times start from petty jealousies etc. that get blown up because the participants happen to have access to, or represent, forces which are capable of mass destruction. It saddens me that politics is used an excuse to hide insecurity or mask some sense of inferiority.

 

There will be no peace until the US get's their revenge...

 

And woe betide we ever say a word against the great United States of America!

 

Well, whether you like it or not, blame is relevant here. One must figure out who bears responsibility for such evil acts in order to "encourage" them not to do so again.

If, in fact, the US had done something to cause such attacks -- that too would be relevant.

 

Zagaroth - It has nothing to do with revenge, the US, as a nation, has become fed up with extremist groups blowing up our people and our buildings, just because they perceive us, or our lifestyle, in a negative way.

The specific event has to do with Bin Laden, al Quaeda and Afghanistan, but the greater issue is hunting down, and ending terrorism as a form of political and religious expression. So, whatever the consequences in the future, we have said, in effect: "Enough!"

If you think it's just about getting Bin Laden & Co., it's not. It's a fundamental change in our disposition and policy regarding those people(I use the term loosely), groups, and nations that conduct these types of terror tactics.

It shouldn't stop when we finally nab the perpetrators of the worst attack my nation has ever suffered. I hope it doesn't.

 

I'd hope there's not a one of us here who wouldn't want peace. But what were you suggesting, Hardin? As Arkados Blackmire posted in the Taliban thread, the best way to achieve peace would be to kill off all the humans.

 

Ending terrorism is not possible.

There will always be people who are underpowered but determined to fight for their cause. The only way they will be able to fight is through what we call terrorism -- guerilla tactics designed to fight without giving the opposing side something concrete to fight against.

The American goal should be a more achievable one: wipe out or render pwoerless that brand of Islamic fundamentalism that says that cultures like ours are evil and should be destroyed by any means necessary.

That's still going to be difficult given that the US DOES export a lot of immoral crap that other nations are right to object to and the fact that Islam is the world's fastest-growing religion.

But we've got to start somewhere.

 

A little peace ... in the chatroom for starters, but that's asking for the moon, methinks.

If you look at it, everyone has a subjective view of what is good, and by the same token the idea of "not good" = evil is a concept put forward by all standards of conduct, which include all of the world's religions, and even covers the materialists, humanists, and atheists.

In that kind of context, killing off all the humans would be the best solution Of course I'm kidding.

The key to end all this conflict is not the absence of war but the love of peace (a paraphrase from Jewish writer Julien Benda) ... to practice tolerance and recognize diversity. What we need is understanding, meeting halfway on some point.

Extremism in any context simply means intolerance of others, and being prepared to call down or suppress the opinions and actions of others that one does not agree with. It's like that Jedi incantation fear ---> hate ---> anger ---> suffering. It sounds simplistic, but isn't that what is happening now?

The U.S., to put it mildly, should look into its own collective soul to see which direction it is going wrong ... it condemns human rights violations elsewhere without addressing its own racism, bigotry, consumerism, among other things. These exist, without judgment or blame on anyone.

Islam is a beautiful religion in its purest sense (minus the intolerance of course), and the Koran and other writings of Muslim scholars are beautiful and have enriched the fabric of human life. Look up many of the scientific and philosophical histories and you will find major contributions by Islamic theologians, philosophers, scholars, and scientists.

Though I'm not a Muslim myself, I have Muslim friends and have a fond appreciation of their religion and their way of life.

Now the way of life as Hollywood and the American media sometimes portrays is anathema to people who wish to live their lives differently, especially Muslims. One cannot judge the lives of others because one just cannot understand or lacks knowledge.

One cannot condemn what one doesn't know.

This move into the Middle East is a tricky one since there are few non-Muslims who could help out in terms of intelligence, cultural understanding, even speaking the local language of Afghanistan. This U.S. led coalition should tread slowly and act from a space of knowledge and building.

Otherwise, the retribution that they will get will be unjust. Look up eveningdrive's post about Afghanistan...

True peace comes from living it, practicing it, being it. It cannot come out from the barrel of a gun. That is a false, imposed, unjust peace, and all you will have to do is oppress people more to maintain that peace or wait for them to strike back at you.

This is a certainty. Count on it.

Whatever the U.S. does, whether it bombs Afghanistan or conducts covert operations, it still needs to bring in agents of change and peace ... to feed the Afghan people, provide basic services and freedoms, and provide opportunities for simple Afghans to govern themselves humanely and wisely.

But I agree with those that justice, whatever its form, must be adminstered. It cannot wait. Just a thought... the method must be thought through. The process must be, above all, focused on that there will be a tomorrow after this, that there will be fatherless (and motherless) children as a result of this conflict, and that there will be dead or starving children too. The objective should be to create a better world, and not just revenge.

Just a few years ago the Japanese government defused a terror campaign in its own backyard - a scheme involving poison gas. Today terrorists succeeded with suicidal attacks by planes. Tomorrow, what will it be? We can all make conjectures or debate about it endlessly ... tomorrow or the next day one of us may very well die because of a murderous act.

It's counterproductive just to wish for peace, because it just won't come that way. It's time that we try to create our own peaceful space, wherever we may be.

I guess I just answered my own thought ... but wishing for peace is just like saying that I'll hit the jackpot and never work another day ... life goes on, so you've got to take your spade and start shoveling, or else you'll starve and die. We just got to keep working at it, and who knows?

Miracles happen. They're often man-made too.

[This message has been edited by Hardin (edited September 21, 2001).]

 

True enough. Peace is a way of life. We could try political demonstrations and such like, but for me personally the best solution is simply to practice it myself.

I must disagree with one statement though. Yes, the US has racism and bigotry within its own borders. But it hardly goes unaddressed. We've passed legislation to establish harsh measures against hate crimes and other racism related incidents.

 

Capstone, Hardin, just to bring your two very valid points together...

Its true that the US has all those conditions for intolerance present. But then again, every nation has them. To all you Americans out there, you have to realize that at this day and age, "Americana" is so prevalent all over the world. Music, MTV, Hollywood, Wall Street, CNN, Superman, Cheeseburgers, fries, milkshakes, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, The Rock, Clinton, Bush, The Academy Awards, the list goes on. The reality is that the world's focus is on you. So whatever happens to America, the world will definitely react, consider, analyze and criticize.

Thing is, the US cannot control what the world (or parts of them) wishes to focus on. In a way, the US is at the mercy of billions of observers who are, let's face it folks, not fully equipped to understand what America truly is, for the simple reason that the rest of the world are not Americans.

When Hardin mentioned the shortcomings of the US as a nation, he contrasted it with the efforts of America to address those shortcomings. Capstone, I don't think Hardin meant to imply that the US does this and preaches that without attending to its own backyard, or being sanctimonius about it. I interpret it as a reaction or opinion about the events in the most visible nation in the world, by someone who belongs to country somehow influenced by the US.

Hardin, in fairness to Capstone and to the American people, like what I said earlier, the US can't control what we wish to observe and react upon regarding itself. The legislation Capstone mention I believe isn't the beginning of the US' efforts to end racism and bigotry in its borders, its the continuation of the struggle which began so many years ago, the legacy and duty of which is handed down from one great American generation to the next. Its a process my friend, fueled by blood and love. And yes, miracles are often manmade, but they rarely happen overnight.

After typing all of that, I suddenly realize that if ever I had to find a common ground between two seemingly contradicting opinions by two people, both of you would be waaaay down at the last of the list. If ever I had to mention names of rational and openminded people, Capstone and Hardin would be a part of those names I'd mention.

I'll just let it stand though. I'm too lazy to erase it.

[This message has been edited by eveningdrive (edited September 21, 2001).]

 

Thank you eveningdrive. I am honored by the compliment.

 

As I write this the mobilization is ongoing and the FBI is conducting the most massive investigation to unmask the perpetrators of the most heinous act of this century (I hope there won't be another to top it).

Thanks to all who agreed, and disagreed. I get a lot of inspiration that people all over the world are doing what they can to make our planet a better place.

Just a thought ... what also strikes me is that more than the deaths of the people involved, the attacks have also ripped some fabric of optimism, the achievement of the people who not only populated the halls of the WTC and the Pentagon, but also the people who helped build them.

I cheer on all the people who have put in their little acts of heroism during the past few days and pray for those who are putting their lives on the line and making the important decisions...

Live long, love life, everyone!