What is the best build for a ranged attacker

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Which weapon(s): Bow, Crossbow, Sling, Dart, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer?

Which class/multiclass? Is the best ranged attacker build a warrior or a "spellsword"?

Which stats? Perhaps Strength is more important than Dexterity if you use the weapons that add strength bonus to damage?

Which Feats? Rapid Shot and Precise Shot? What else?

 

My Strongheart Halfling Thief is awesome. I keep him switches between the Duergar crossbow(that prototype one) and a composite long bow of something thats +4/+5. Rapid shot always on, don't got precise shot cuz that close I use +4 short sword. He accounts for 21% of all kills for 2 reasons: 1) Sneak attack, and 2) he runs away, and snipes with rapid shot for like 4 shots. Sweetnes!!!

 

Everyone on my team was a good ranged attacker. They used their ranged weapons more than their melée weapons or spells. Enemy spellcasters died before they had a change to cast a spell and before their melée fighters reached my team. If there was more than one enemy spellcaster, I concentrated on 2 or 3 only. Enemy bowmen were also a priority to kill with ranged weapons in the first half of the game when my team still had a low AC. When my spellcasters didn't need to cast any particular spell, they used their ranged weapons.

An *excellent* ranged attacker obviously has to have a very high attack bonus only, it's that simple. So they must be a fighter type (fighter, barbarian, paladin or even ranger too ), have very high dexterity and use a multiple-attack-per-round weapon. Weapon Focus in their preferred ranged weapon can help, but is not necessary as the gained +1 is marginal.

The best ranged weapon in my opinion is the Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy +4. It has +10 Attack and +5 damage, multiple attacks per round (as many as you have), is enhanced with rapid shot feat and with haste and is a simple weapon that everyone is qualified to use without a feat.

 

@Jorgon
What are his stats?
Do you have Dash since you say he "runs away"?
Do you get four Sneak attacks in a row in the same round?
Is it really useful for a pure Rogue (which I assume this is) to use a Short Sword instead of a missile weapon & Precise Shot?

@Quint
Your theory on high attack bonus aims at hitting as much as possible, but isn't there a trade off between better attack bonus and more damage?
I believe Weapon Specialization in the choosen weapon is good for the extra +2 damage. Improved Critical would be good for the same reason.

[ December 15, 2002, 04:18: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

 

str-12, dex-24, con-12, int-14, wis-10, chr-10
doom bolter and a +4 longbow. He's got dash and imp. initiative as well. Can you use ranged weapons for sneak attack? What I meant about all those attacks is I also have a ring of invisibility and also invisibility potions out the wazoo. I use those alot. A +4 short sword has awesome sneak attack damage. I get sneak attacks of like 36 and 39 plus the actual attack roll of 6-11. I love melee, even my mage goes into melee.

 

I'm not much of a sniper or shooter, but I've seen a few HoF weapons that made me think twice about carrying a ranger or someone with high dex. For example, the HoF Hell Bolter is one insane crossbow, and one of the few ranged weapons that's so good I had to give it to someone to use. But personally I prefer slings. They don't offer anything close to the firing rate of a hell bolter but because its one handed, I can carry a tome in the other and basically get an extra "clothing/amor" slot for my sorcerer. The Sling/Tome combo I use is Rol-Sayid's Left Hand of Darkness and the Masterwork Tome of Glorious Exaltation.

 

@Earl Grey:

If you mean decrease attack bonus to increase damage, or vice versa, I don't think there is such a trade off for ranged weapons. Except with the rapid shot feat perhaps. I mean you can pretty much maximize your ranged attack bonus without affecting your ranged damage much in the process. Or pretty much maximize both.

You're right, I forgot those for damage. There could be a tradeoff here then if you have only 1 feat and must choose between these and Rapid Shot.
I think I would choose Rapid Shot because it will generally increase your expected damage more than any of these 2 feats.

Why don't you try to use my Damage Calculator to simulate these cases (I think you have it already)?

 

From my experience, I have found that a combination of thief/fighter/ranger is by far the most effective combo if you want a ranged fighter with lots of abilities, some spells and two weapon fighting just in case (pretty deadly).. From all the combos this one seems the best:

Rogue level 3
Fighter level 4
Ranger level x

wear only studded leather +3 with +6 dex bonus, make dex 22, wisdom 14 is enough, make it higher as you get to higher spell levels, intel 12 for the extra skill points, the rest on strength and con depends on what you want. Dex does not need to be higher then 22 since then you lose on dex bonus with armor, wisdom is always good for more spells (extras) and strength and con have obvious advantages. Then take weapon focus and small blades all the way, and bow all the way. Also, rapid shot, luck of heroes, deflect arrows, dodge is good too, and not to forget improved initiative and critical. Then equip him with a bow, and two weapon style with short sword in the main hand, dagger in the offhand, you'll get massive bonuses and huge attack bonues (# of attacks) that rivals a pure fighter. Give skill points to rogue skills so that you have a pure fighter with excellent rogue skills and you'll have an amazing character. I've tried all kinds and this combo seems to be the most powerful, losing only a bit on attack bonus, having a huge bow bonus and can cast spells.. Another way to combo would be to go ranger 1 just for the two weapon and ambi, rogue 10 for improved evasion, and the rest fighter, but this one didn't seem to be as powerful.

[ December 15, 2002, 23:36: Message edited by: Trypt ]

 

I think I would go with a fighter(depending on how many feats you want but atleast 4)/rogueX for a very versatile ranged attacker. Halfling for the dex bonus and other perks, the str penalty doesnt matter much as you will use bows. Then just mix and blend between fighter and rogue depending if you want bab and feats or skills and special abilities.

 

Strongheart Halfling for +2 dex and a bonus feat.
Fighter-4/Ranger or a Pure Fighter.
14 str - 20 dex - 18 con - 3 int - 18 wis - 3 cha
Increase dex to 25 then with items you have 30.

 

Remember: The goal is to make this character maximize damage by ranged attacks.

Several mention of Rogue has been made. Let me clarify that as far as I can tell the only reason for mixing in Rogue in this character type is to get Sneak attack. Do you get Sneak attack with ranged weapons?

As you can probably read between the lines I'm leaning towards something like this:
Tiefling Fighter
Str 18, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 18, Cha 1
Starting Feats: Rapid Shot and WF in Missile Weapons (sling and dart).
Later get WS in weapons of choice, Precise Shot, Improved Critical, Maximized Damage.

@Trypt
This seems to be what you recommend: Str 13, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 3 (or toss the str/con figuers around).
Your character uses a bow which doesn't get bonus damage from strength, so I can see the low prioroty for strength. The question is which weapon type makes for the best ranged attacker.

Several Feats you mention are what I consider useless/near useless:
Deflect Arrows - This is a joke! +1 AC vs missiles only.
Dodge - +1 AC bonus. I thought it was nice, but now I think otherwise.
Improved Initiative - Bugged and does not work, period.

 

Just to clear it up, ranged attacks DO NOT work with sneak attack.

Here's a comparison of various ranged weapons and their damage... (assuming that all weapons are normal, non magic varieties and that there are no other items on the character).

sling: 1d4 + 10 (8 str (max at 30th level) +2 specialization) max is 14, unsure of crits

throwing axe: 1d6 + 10 (as sling) max it 16 (the most) unsure of crits...

longbow: 1d8 + 2 (+2 spec.) max is 10, crit is 20, x3

heavy x-bow: 1d12 + 2 (as above) max is 14, crit is 19 or 20, x2

This shows that throwing weapons have a definite advantage over bows etc, that is assuming that the character is willing to put all their points into strength and is a half-orc. The bows and longbows have nearly as high maximum damage, but far lower average damage, although there are probably better magical bows than there are throwing axes and slings.

 

I haven't tried HoF mode yet, but I came across Lymia's Tongue in the regular game, and I'm finding I like it better than the longbow for my rogue. Normally my rogue sneak attacks when possible with a knife, and then moves behind my tanks to deal ranged damage with a bow, but this knife is nice. It's a throwing dagger that returns, and it's barbed so, well, it only does 1d4 going in, and then another 1d4 coming out, but with bonuses... it's pretty handy. And for sneak attacks... heh heh heh, I made some thrall in the mind flayer temple explode.

I'm a big fan of throwing items that return because well, ya don't run out of ammo (like crossbow bolts.)

 

I've got some questions about throwing weapons and ranged weapons in general:

Can you use rapid shot with throwing?

Can you use throwing to make a sneak attack when in melee?

Can you use power attack or expertise with range weapons?

Thanks in advance...

 

Contradiction: You cannot use a ranged or thrown weapon in melée, because if you did, you wouldn't be in melée... right?
So obviously no sneak attack with ranged or thrown weapons.

As for the Rapid Shot, I think it only works for bows as per the feat's description, and a few magic crossbows (a sort of an easter egg).

But you can easily get the answers to these feat questions on your own: just save, level up your guy with the console (i.e. cheat), pick the feat you want and try it out!

 

I generally agree with the "low or no strength and max out your dex" theory for snipers. However, as I am in HoF mode, I quicky came across a dullcobblers axe which returns to your hand after thrown, 1d6+3 AND your strength applies. Natually I put it to a good dex and str character. The barb fit the bill w/ (level 20 barb, 1 cleric, tempus for axe and cleric only items) he has natural 18 dex and 25 str un-buffed. So an extra 7 to damage on ranged is quite nice coupled with 2 feats that in my book are a must; rapid shot and improved critical. Also, dirty fighting I played with and really like for HoF mode w/ longer battles and all ... fits VERY nicely with improved crits for obvious reasons. The main drawback of the throwing axe is range ... it is like half the range of a dart chucker, but oh well, he's a barb and is the main meat shield anyway ... with that extra free hand he can carry, hmmm ... a shield of missle protection +10 to missile in that off hand to soak up the enemy snipers garbage. Works well with barbs natural abilities as well w/ damage reduction ... 10/+2 Corrigon (sp?) HoF armor from Battle Sqare Rank 3 works great with the whole package too. So there is my 2 cents and then some on axe lobbers ... I'm sold on em, only want one maybe 2 though! In HoF w/ improved crit he commonly deals 45 DPH, hehe ... that's damage per hurl.

L8er all

[ December 19, 2002, 00:42: Message edited by: Swen ]