What's so powerful about a monk?

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I am currently soloing a monk and I'm having a pretty hard time. This is because the monk is supposed to be weak at the start, but get really powerful in the end.

Now I was just fooling around and I set my experience to 8,000,000. I was wearing the girdle of hill giant strength and my thac0 was -7, that's not really great if you ask me. Any fighter could get better thac0. The monk's AC was -7 which I found pretty decent also considering he has only 13 dex.
But what I don't really get is why some people are saying the high level monk is sooooo powerful. I mean, he might be decent, but the way it seems to me now, any fighter could beet him any time. A monk's fists will at the most do 1d20 damage, while a two-handed sword would do 1d12. But the monk's fists are +4 and a sword can have more. Also, a sword can have all kinds of special effects on hit and while equiped. My monk got 4 attacks a round and I think a grandmaster with two-handed swords could get that too. The monk can't be hasted and with some mod that changes HLA's, my monk didn't get whirlwind attacks.

So basically my argument is:
A monk seems decent to me, but a fighter would outclass him in thac0, AC, number of attacks, special effects/protections (from magical swords/armors) and damage. Basically everything a fighter is good at. The only thing the monk has going for him is high MR (I only got 78% at level 40 while I should get 3 per level, what's up with that?) and some immunities that can be easily replicated with items.

Anyway, this is not supposed to be some rant about how much monks suck, but more like a call on people who do know how to play a monk, to tell me why he is[/is] as great as they claim and how he should be used.

 

Yeah, that is quite true that he does not seem to be much at first glance, but, as I recall, he does get immunity to non-magical attacks, immunity to poison and disease, +2 to will saves, and his special abilites, like Kai and Quivering Palm and Stunning Blow, can really turn the tide of the battle. Otherwise, yeah, they suck. And I see that they get Lay on Hands for 2hp/level starting at seventh level.

Edit: Punctuation and last line.

 

The monk is awesome if done roperly. Firstly you should have given him 18 dex for armour class bonus. Second thing if hes soloed he should get all the decemnt items. This means Amulet of Power, Cloak of Sewers(Mirroring is overkill) Ring of Regeneration, Ring of Gaxx, Wong Fei's Ioun Stone, Monk's Bracers(I don't think thats the name) or Gauntlets of Crushing throughout SoA, Boots of Speed, Girdle of Fire Giant Strength, and for weapons Sling Of Everard/Seeking for the rare occasions that you need missile weapons. With greater whirlwind the strength bonuses, the 1D20+4 of his fists you can attack within the vicinity of 30 hps of damage for 10 attacks a round. 300+ damage a round. Then if the enemies hit hard he can use Hardiness, his immunity to normal weapons, and all his other resistances to stay alive. Against mages, with his normal resistance and item bonuses it is possible for a monk to have 127% resistance to magic. In other words immune to everything except for imprisonement. If you're fighting an extremely difficult boss, Why not hide in shadows and come out of shadows with a Quivering Palm? One hit death. Fighting annoying lower level creatures, why not greater deathblow them. This ability will actually kill a beholder in one hit. Annoying human size bosses can also be smited and knocked back and stunned with power attack or stunning blow.The only drawback the monk has is his hitpoints which the items boost, but not by that much. So you have to hope that hardiness and your supreme speed will let you survive until you can lay on hands at level 40 for a healing of 80 hps then jump back into the fray.

 

Monk also will level up fast than a fighter, least until halfway through TOB.

 

People say Monks are overpowered because he can take on anything in ToB with barely any preparations and win - whereas fighers can't. Try putting a fighter in a room of high level magic-users and I doubt he'll fare better.
The fact that fighters outTHAC0 and outAC him is irrelevant - -52 THAC0 or AC is not necessary to beat Mel or Draconis.
The Monk can hit as much as a fighter can against all but the most severe of bosses - and he can hit harder, with 1d20 crushing damage(the least resisted damage type in the game), while being protected from just about any type of magical effect. He can also "take down dragons in one blow" - a title which is overrated at best. Thus, he is overpowered - at least, in reference to the game itself.
In reference to other fighters he is bested - since fighters don't cast Timestops or Horrid Wiltings.
A pure fighter, for example, can fairly beat a Monk one-on-one.

[ November 17, 2003, 04:32: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

 

78% MR is the cap of the kit, but with a Ring of Gaxx and an amulet (i dont know the name) it is 98% what must be enough. 13 dex is not enough. That is a very bad monk. DEX is the most important thing for an armourless fighter. Does the monk need to be hasted? It moves fastern, and able to hide in the shadow. Use those features to overpower a fighter. Monk should be a wise and clever person.

 

@ Scythesong

Not if you're playing an intelligent monk. He comes out of shadows with a quivering palm....BAM!! Instant Death if he fails his saving throw. If he doesnt. THe mon k uses his superior movement rate sprints around a corner, Hides in shadows, and repeats. Hopefully this should work (maybe I'm crazy but after writing that I seem to remember can monks only Quivering Palm Once per day?? Or does it increase when they level up). If you run out of quivering palms and they saved every time, Why not just came out of shadows for a 1D20+4 hit, then sprint and Hide in Shadows. Thusly in a bout against a Fighter it is possible for the monk to win.

OOOOh pretty new Gem

 

OK, so basically the monk isn't as strong as a fighter against other fighters, but he is superior when facing mages?

I have another question: how does a monk handle large fights. With this I mean fights with lots of melee enemies. For example: Mae'Var. I had the Improved version installed and I succeeded in killing him with Quivering Palm, but his henchmen kept on killing me. Maybe this isn't a really good example, because they kept turning invisible, but I'm also having trouble with the ambushes you get when travelling ("You have been waylayed (sp?) by enemies and must defend yourself).
I can handle one or two enemies, but if it's more, they kill me because my AC isn't really great and I don't have a lot of hp too (even with cheating in a familiar). When fighting against groups in small area's, you can't hide in shadows and even if you can, you can only land one attack at a time and then hide again.

 

The easiest time i had getting through the game was playing as a monk they own !

 

The trouble with a monk is that he is kind of a support character in my mind. Of course, never having soloed, I say pretty well all characters are support characters, but anyhow . . .

He's supposed to be rocking in melee, but his thaco is that of a cleric. he can hide in shadows and detect traps, but he can't disarm them or backstab from the shadows. There's not a lot of equipment he can use, and the haste function of the Gaxx ring is wasted on him in that he can be neither hasted or slowed.

 

Well, my problem is that I don't find him that powerful. I am soloing right now and I'm level 14, so I should own right? (at least according to some people)
But I can't even go toe to toe with a Spirit Troll. I'm in De'Arnise Keep right now and I have to fight groups of 2 Umber Hulks, 2 Great Trolls and I don't know how much Spirit Trolls, because they seem to just warp in and I didn't count them. I ran into a room with one opponent, figuring I should be able to beat him, but I wasn't. I didn't really do a lot of damage and the stupid troll kept on regenerating, so I never got a chance, while the troll was doing 10-20 damage a hit. Stunning Blow wouldn't work and I haven't tried Quivering Palm yet, but it'd be no use, because I can only use it once a day and I need to kill much more trolls.

And I figure this isn't the only time I'm gonna run into this kind of trouble. Because I really don't know how a solo monk (or any other fighter) could beat a melee-based creature/boss, that's superior in fighting to him. It's not like a fightertype has a great array of tactical options other than just bashing the target. Sure I can run away and hide in shadows and use Stunning Blow and Quivering blow, but what if the enemy's immune, or I can't leave the room and hide in shadows?

 

I have never played solo monk, but once i had one in my party. In the beginig, of the game she did nothing. But at the Underdark with the new gauntlets, she killed everybody. Later the monk is a perfect weapon against spellcasters.

Maybe a melee based big boss is hard to beat, but for a fighter, a simple umber hulk means problem too.

By the end of the game tricky mages makes the game harder and harder, that is the point when a monk is the most usefull.

 

Would a monk be too weak in normal BG? I'm thinking of Tutuing one.

I would not be playing solo.

 

I've never played BG1, so I don't know about the difficulty, but I do know that my monk was very weak in Irenicus' Dungeon.

I don't think it says much though, because a mage in Chateau Irenicus is pretty weak too while in BG1 a level 8 mage would be reasonable strong (right?).

 

Yes, but you might have a hard time with BG1, since he won't have his special abilities. As long as you've got a party, though, you'll be alright.

 

Monks are back loaded, they are extremely powerful in their later stages, their bonuses might slow down but others spring up. Whereas a figher is front loaded their thaco caps at level 20 and the only other thing apart from hitpoints they gain is HLA's that monks get any way. Its completely unfair to compare a fighter to a monk, as a monk is the ultimate anti mage one man commando. He is not the "full plate and packing steel" fighter that a half orc would be. Its extremely unfair to compare a beginning monk to a fighter as well. Taking into consideration where they gain most of their powers and prowess, a low level fighter will slaughter a low level monk. And most likely a high level fighter will beat a high level monk, though it would be close. However if you sent a level 36 fighter into a room with five high level mages, he would be charmed disintegrated, turned to stone, finger of deathed, and turned into a squirell before the first blow falls. However the monk can walk into a room with five high level mages, they cant see him as he's hidden in shadows, and then come out of shadows with either a stunning blow or quivering palm that puts 1 mage out of commision., before he can get his defences up. Using his superior speed, depending on the size of the room, he might be able to sprint to another mage and land a blow with the scarlet Ninjo-To if he's lucky and poison him, putting him out of commision as well. Now by this time the other 3 or 4 high level mages will have their contingencies up, and now they unleash their full arcane fury upon you. You kill the 1 or 2 diasabled and unprotected magicians while they and their esteemed colleauges (sp?)throw every spell in their spellbook at you. And you don't necessarily have to kill the 1 or 2 unprotected mages, their partners might very well kill them for you with a misdirected cloud kill. Now you sit tight watching all the pretty fireworks from their spell effects, waiting for their protections to run out. You then proceed to eat the spleen of the third mage, rip of the legs of the fourth mage and beat him with the wet ends, and for the last you can rip off his arms shove 'em in his ears and ride him like a bicycle.

With this I hope to have illustrated one!of the reasons why a monk is so powerful.

ENJOY

 

Yeah, I am using in bg1tutu though not solo ( i never play solo as I like a full party ).

Her main function is bait mostly as she moves very fast so she runs around until Kivan and Imoen mows down the opposition with arrows. She is also the arrow bait with girdle of piercing, those special boots from the second bounty hunter in Nashkel and claw of kazgaroth. Only critical hits deal damage but oh do they hurt (the same can be said for all low level characters though). Also have her and Kivan hide in shadows to get beside a hostile group then stunning blow the main enemy spellcaster (with much success) while Ajantis occupies their attention.

Otherwise she hurls darts and smacks the odd skeleton or two (pretty sure she won't be tackling skeleton warriors anytime soon).

 

Is that abit off topic?

Or was the original post about using a Monk in bgtutu? Did i miss read?

 

I was replying to Sparhawk the Pandion's post regarding his intention to tutu a monk

 

Ok, I miss read, fair do's mate!

I do so envy the guy who can get BGTuTu working!