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What's up with Manyshot?

Discussion in 'Dungeons & Dragons + Other RPGs' started by Oaz, Sep 16, 2004.

  1. Oaz Gems: 29/31
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    The Ranger was on my mind today, and I eventually looked at the Manyshot feat, and now I'm wondering whether or not this feat is a total waste for anyone who meets its stringent prerequisites or for a Ranger who is taking the archery combat style branch.

    The only advantage seems to be that you can fire multiple times and then take a move action. Of course, the penalties to hit are atrocious, the range is bad, and you can only fire at one enemy, not to mention that only one arrow is precision-based. The topping on this is that you can't combine Manyshot with Shot on the Run, because Manyshot is not an actual ranged attack action.

    Any differing opiniions?

    (Manyshot is posted here for convenience's sake.)

    ---

    MANYSHOT [General]

    Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6

    Benefit: As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet. Both arrows use the same attack roll (with a –4 penalty) to determine success and deal damage normally (but see Special).

    For every five points of base attack bonus you have above +6, you may add one additional arrow to this attack, to a maximum of four arrows at a base attack bonus of +16. However, each arrow after the second adds a cumulative –2 penalty on the attack roll (for a total penalty of –6 for three arrows and –8 for four).

    Damage reduction and other resistances apply separately against each arrow fired.

    Special: Regardless of the number of arrows you fire, you apply precision-based damage only once. If you score a critical hit, only the first arrow fired deals critical damage; all others deal regular damage.

    A fighter may select Manyshot as one of his fighter bonus feats.

    A 6th-level ranger who has chosen the archery combat style is treated as having Manyshot even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor
     
    Oaz, Sep 16, 2004
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  2. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    It looks like it's basically a trade of damage for attack bonus.

    No, that's not it. You're firing all the arrows with one shot (your first attack):
    So, like I said, you're trading the extra damage you inflict with the extra arrows for the attack bonus penalty. And that's it. You can move after, or you can make a full attack and get any additional attacks your BAB allows. Oh, and I think you CAN combine it with Shot on the Run.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Sep 17, 2004
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  3. Oaz Gems: 29/31
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    But the trade for extra damage inflicted by Manyshot doesn't seem as desirable as what you can do with Rapid Shot, with lets you make the same number of attacks as Manyshot but with a substantially lower penalty. So it would seem as if Rapid Shot is more advantageous than Manyshot unless making a move action because crucial (like drawing a bow and then firing it maybe? :confused: )

    About Shot on the Run, it says that you can take an attack action and move before and after it, but using Manyshot isn't actually an attack action. I believe that it was stated explicity in a Wizards FAQ that you couldn't use the two feats in conjunction.
     
    Oaz, Sep 18, 2004
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  4. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Here's my take, and believe me, I'm no expert, so I'm probably wrong, but it makes sense to me :)

    I don't understand why Many Shot would not be an attack action. It explicityly states:
    And just what is an attack action? A standard action in which you attack. Sounds exactly like Many Shot, contrary to Rapid Shot under which you must make a full attack action.

    Here is what Many Shot and Rapid Shot mean to me logically:

    Many Shot is you grab up to four arrows from your quiver place them all in your bow at the same time and shoot at your target. Thus it's the same as if you took one arrow out and shot it; only due to your extraordinary dexterity and ability (the Many Shot feat) are you able to grab and shoot more than one at a time. So, IMO, with Many Shot, you can fire multiple arrows as an attack action; in other words as a standard action.

    Rapid Shot is where you grab one arrow at a time and shoot it, but due to your extraordinary dexterity and ability (the Rapid Shot feat) you are quick enough to grab one more arrow and shoot it than your typical archer. You are not however quick enough that you can do it within a standard action.

    So that seems like the difference between the two for me: Many Shot is a standard attack action, while Rapid Shot requires a full attack action.

    If the FAQ you site does indeed contradict the above, that makes no sense to me...
     
    Blackthorne TA, Sep 18, 2004
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  5. Oaz Gems: 29/31
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    Aha, I found the FAQ for Manyshot and Shot on the Run. It's here(here), on the bottom of page 8 and top of page 9.

    The main reason I do not think that Manyshot should count as an attack action is because of the full attack action. Full attack means you can make multiple (normally up to four) attack actions in a single round. So if Manyshot were an attack action, that means you could theoretically fire up to 16 arrows in a single round. Whether this is overpowered, unrealistic, or both, I can't say.
     
    Oaz, Sep 18, 2004
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  6. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Well, I guess I shouldn't argue with the official game FAQ, but I will anyway :)
    No, I don't think so. On page 122 of the PHB, it states:
    and also in the table below that, it lists full attack as an attack action. Then on page 124 where it describes the full attack:
    So. All the above means to me is that a full attack is a single attack action where you can use multiple attacks per action, not multiple attack actions. Many Shot can be applied only to a single attack action, so you can do it only once for a standard attack or a full attack.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Sep 18, 2004
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  7. Oaz Gems: 29/31
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    Reinterpreting Manyshot as a single attack action would probably make it more usable since it would then be compatible with Shot on the Run. Perhaps it was just the original intent when Wizards was making 3.5e.
     
    Oaz, Sep 19, 2004
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