What's Wrong with Dual Classing?

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From what I've seen from some people dual classing isn't very popular and I really don't get why this is so.

Look at some of the dual classed npcs in SoA and how good they can become Like

Imoen: she's a theif(7)mage and even though her thief level is very low it's still leaves her with enough points to do the primary theif abilitys and for pick pockets thiers at least 20 potions of theiver and perseption in the game for that and it costs almost nothing compared to what you have (one would wonder why they even sell those things)

Anomen: this guy can be a pretty weak fighter early on, not to mention bloody annoying but if you keep him for a while his cleric levels combined with grand mastery, and his buff spells can make him a very good fighter and his attitude also improves as well later on.

I always have Imoen in the party and by the time she hit's level 31 she can have a * in Long swords, scimitars and 2weapon style and combined with Angruvidel and Belm can have a Thac0 of below 0, and she's even better if backed by Haer's song all this with IH can make her an almost F/M/T or at least the closest npc in BG2 has to one.

Then their are other characters you can play as like a Kensai/Mage, Kensai/theif, Assasin/fighter(seeing a pattern yet?) etc.

So back to my original question now, why are dual classes considered so bad?

[ February 14, 2004, 22:01: Message edited by: Blackthorne TA ]

 

Because a Multiclass get in TOB HLA from both class which is pretty valuable.

 

Ok I'll give an example of a couple of npc's that I tried.

I had Imoen in the party to handle all my theiving and as a mage, I also had Haer Dalis even if I didn't do anything with him until the Ascension fight with Mellisan. Now what I'm saying is that you don't need a dual class character to have ability's in both classes seeing as their are only four different HLA tables which are really all that different from each other, or in the case of the Imoen/Hear Dalis pairing, Imoen does the brunt of the casting and the thieving and later on can be a back up fighter with haers song (Note: I mean backup as in, only a very last resort or in an extremely challanging fight) And Haer Dalis who get's the theif hla traps to fill in the thieving gap for Imoen.

Imoen is only a level 7 thief but this means she can use theif weapons and thiers all those nice str enhancing items out thier and weapons like Belm and the Amulet of the Harper, and even if she is a pretty miserable thief without items and potions she could probably outlast Jan in a duel simply because of her superior spells.

My point is that simply because a Dual class character only advances in a second area does not make them a worse choice then the same multi, because for one they level up faster and in the case of some classes can make them better then a multi class, like a dual class R/C and a multi class R/C for example, the multi may be able to use fighter HLA's but the Dual is obviously a better caster which is his strength the multi class character could try to kill him but the dual having more spells can just keep casting Armour of faith until the other guy is all out of HLA's and spells, and if the multi try's to dispel magic the dual class can just use the sheild of the Arcons spell to stop it, not to mention the fact the dual classed R/C has more Iron skin spells which protect him from more hits.

 

Dual-classes should not be considered bad at all. Imoen and Anomen all excellent characters.
Anomen has 2 attacks per round and higher THAC0 than normal clerics, and at high levels he has very powerful spells. Imoen with Time Stop and Finger of Death is also an excellent party member. Dual-classed characters are as good as multiclassed, they are just different.

 

The only problem with the dual-class is when you have to start all over again as a level 1 <class>. Then you have to gain as much experience as possible for you to recover the benefits of your previous class.
While there are many people who have the patience for it, there are also many who don't.

Personally, though, I prefer most dual-classes to multi-classes, and when I play one I usually end up soloing.
I too don't have the patience for carrying around a level n/level 1 dual-class character in a party.

 

Let us not forget the kensai/mage...
Dual class has the benefit of being able to start as a kit so it isn't restricted to vanilla classes.

 

What i don't like in dual classing is during the dual classing stage where you return to level 1 of the second class you have chosen and just stand at the back of your party for protection doing nothing very significant.

If ever i want my character to dual class, i use SK to satisfy that.

 

Well, I think that dual-classing is really underrated.
To be sure, it is definitely a good think. I like to use the swashbuckler/mage. And don't forget that in dual-class, the second class levels up very fast, if you are fighting high-level beasts.

 

dual classing starts at level one in the second class but if you're going to dual class in most cases you don't really need to be high level in the first class, in the examples of Imoen and Anomen for example, they are both only level 7 in the first class and it's a very very short wait before you can get your old ability's back, unless you leave it too late and in the case of mages they take about as long to get to level ten as most other classes, before the leveling up for them starts to slow down.

I personally think of dual classing as I would a Blade, the Blade is a poor fighter, a pathetic theif and a limited mage but if you know what to do he is potentially one of the most powerful (or cheesy) characters you can get.

 

In the short run, you could prefer multi-classing instead of dual-classing because that way you keep the benefits of the two classes at relatively higher levels. But in the long run-And this is specially true when you play ToB after SoA-your multiclassed characters just don't catch up. if you play a complete game-this is completing almost 90% of the possible quests in the game-you'll notice that your multiclassed characters have ten or more levels of experience less than the more experienced characters. In my current game I'm starting ToB, and Anomen is already level 31 and Aerie, the only multiclass character I have in my party is still 19/16. All the characters I have played in SoA and Tob are Fighter-something Dual classes. That way, they can fill the role of a tank if needed in a more non-melee oriented party or they fit better in a melee oriented one. As for NPCs, Anomen for instance, is not as good as a cleric as Viconia, but if you arm him with the Crom Faeyr, he's got his two attacks and Grand Mastery in warhammer,so he becomes as good as a tank as he is as a cleric, so, with him you fill two roles in a party with a single character without the limitations of multi-class. Besides, there are dual-class combinations which are simply the hell on wheels; Kensai-Mage, Fighter-Monk, or your simple, handy and mass-murdering fighter thief are only a few examples. Take a look at my good aligned party:
-Me, 7/39 Figher-thief, it finished SoA and ToB, cleared Bodhi's lair singlehandedly, killed Bodhi with a 212 hp backstab.

-Minsc. Heavily armed and armored, it has a strong tendency to achieving critical hits, nice strength, very good archer, defender of mages.

-Anomen. Having become Sir Anomen, with a not-too-bad WIS stat, the Crom Faeyr and Gauntlets of Specialization, five slots in Warhammer and more than 100 hit points, fills an offensive cleric role with offensive and party-benefit spells.

Aerie. Support personnell in this party and a good chance to romance with an interesting plot developed later in ToB. Fills the defensive spell role in both mage and cleric abilities and she's also the healer of the party, nice companion for both Anomen and Nalia or Imoen.

Nalia/Imoen. I use to take Nalia along because I think her keep is the best stronghold, but I have taken Imoen as well. They are both thief/Mage dual class, being Imoen the better to fill the first role. I took Nalia along because I was far better thief than them both and I needed a Mage from the very beginning. But in case you are not a thief they can get you out of any trapped dungeon, besides being good mages.

Keldorn. The best companion in a good aligned party, he's a rather good fighter, and I make good use of his dispel magic and trueseeing abilites. Besides, his free action and high CHA
are valuable assets both in combat and dealing with retailers throughout the game.

So, you see, three dual class and a multiclass and with them I have completed the game without having to resurrect a character once. However, if you intend to go on a solo game, multiclass can be your best chance, though.

 

I don't really see a problem with duel classing except trying to get your original class skills back. The duel classed character has to hang in the back until he/she can survive.

 

Fighter monk?

Impossible as far as BG2 is concerned, IIRC.

 

True, only valid multi-classes can be dualed, though you can start off with a kit.

I prefer dualing over multi-classing, dunno what caused this thread - haven't seen any complains but ach well.

First of, the Kensai/Mage is the closest to god you get. Too easy though, and was only fun once for me.

Fighter(preferably Berserker)/Cleric are very good, and very entertaining as well. Gonna play as Clerc/Druid? Start off as fighter and dual.

If one's gonna play raw classes, it's always better to start as fighter (or something else, though fighter offers many oppertuinities (how the beep is that spelled?).

I do not say that multi is bad, on the contrary. Especially with ToB installed, they excel with double HLAs.

It's a personal choice though, some prefer dual and some multi. Dualed F/C owns though

 

you also have to consider that dualclass is human only. all other races do multiclass. so you also get special boni atop of the different mixclass system, like dwarf + con or elf + dex, while human isnt bound to vanillas.

i would also say that the dualclass npcs suck somehow. you can easily best them by creating a char yourself. i am playing The Darkest Day atm and created a human Swindler9/mageX. seriously, he is as good as imoen and nalia together.

 

i love dual-classing, and personally i think they are way more powerful than multiclasses!

kensai\thief
kensai\mage

enough said

just imagine a kensai wearing armour, gloves and helmet hehehehehehe

 

I personally prefer multi-class to dual-class, but I won't say dual-classes are bad. Any dual-class is better than a straight class. However, it largely depends on what you're dualling from and to if it's worth your while.

For example, any character can be better if they start off as a fighter. The ability to get up to 5 *'s in any proficiency makes them have considerably lower THAC0's even when their new class far surpasses their fighter class. (Note when I say fighter, I mean a fighter or kit - plug in beserker/kensai if you wish.) Some combinations are natural - like a kensai/mage. With a cleric, I would prefer to go with a beserker/cleric, or beserker/druid.

That having been said, there are classes you should never start with if you are planning to dual class. For example, cleric, druid or mage is just going to hurt your character in the long run. There's also no way you want to start as a thief, unless you plan on switching to mage.

There are also many character combinations that are made to be multi-classed. I think any combination of a theif multi-class works great, because your thief skills keep improving, you get thief HLA's (without taking Jan with you), and yet you aren't using a slot only for the purposes of having a thief. For example, I'll take a multi-classed fighter/thief over a dual-classed fighter thief any day. I still get all the thief points, and I get the benefit of fighter HLA's - and let's just say a critical strike with a backstab works really well. Plus, fighters stop getting better after level 20. That's when their THAC0 maxes out. So I don't feel like I'm losing anything by doing the dual-class (because I get the HLA's so much earlier than level 20).

That having been said, I'll take a dual-classed thief/mage over a multi-class thief/mage, because the multi-class in this instance hurts the character's development. Sure I get more thief abilities, but it will take forever to get to cast 9th level spells (you'll need 3 million in each class - so more like 6 million).

So it's hard to say one is "better" it all depends on what combination of classes you're talking about. Some are better for multi-classing, some for dual-classing.