When Did the U.S. Become the Sports Underdog?

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I borrowed some of this from ESPN.

U.S. on the international sports scene:

• Women's basketball: Lost in the semis of the World Championship.

• Men's basketball: Lost in the semis of the World Championship.

• Baseball: Couldn't get out of the second round at the World Baseball Classic.

• Men's soccer: Didn't sneak out of group play at the World Cup.

• Men's tennis: Lost in the semifinals of the Davis Cup.

• Men's golf: Europe 18½, United States 9½ at The K Club in Straffan, Ireland.

And that's just in the last six months. If you want to go back a little further than that, you can also list our ice hockey team getting kicked around the ice at 2006 games in Torino. (As an aside, why the heck did the world start calling Turin Torino? Yes, I know that Torino is the Italian name for the city, but since the time of the Romans, it's been called Turin by the rest of the world. Why was this change necessary?)

Now some of it is understandable. The U.S. doesn't exactly have a long and storied history at the WC. Most Americans root for our team more out of a sense of national duty and pride than with any unrealistic or false hopefulness that we can compete against the world's best. Winning a game or two and making it into the elimination rounds is viewed as a moral victory.

But in other regards - these are sports that in that not too distanct past we owned. Basketball - both men's and women's is sport born in the U.S. in which we always did well. Heck, even before they started letting the pros play, our college kids were better than 90% of the teams we competed against. Then again, back then, it was all about beating the Russians.

The recent shellacking at the Ryder Cup seems to be merely a symptom of a larger problem here. At first you write it off by saying there are lots of poorer nations that are starting to fund sports better and as such, they are fielding much more competitive teams. That works when considering South American nations, but it's not exactly like Europe only decided to industrialize in the last decade. So I guess the question here is: Have certain sports - most noteably but not exclusively basketball - become so much more popular in the world in the last decade or so that more interest and money are pouring into these programs allowing nations to push their athletic talent in these directions? Or is this just a small piece of the total picture?

 

I think it just means that the USA is much more focussed on its national competitions than international ones. You guys love the NBA much more than the World Basketball Champs, etc.

 

I believe that popularization has been a major factor in the improvement in quality that we see in those sports around the globe, but there are other factors that, IMHO, have contribute to this scenario. For instance, opening the international competitions for the pros allowed the players from all around the world to get in touch with a whole new level in those sports. That also had a nice side effect; now that the pros are allowed to play in the international competitions foreign players have no objections in joining the professional leagues, and by doing so, they can learn from the best.

I also think that mostly, the US professional players don’t give much importance to the international competition, while other competitors are ready to give everything to get the opportunity to beat the, hypothetically, best team in the world (the USA).

 

That's an excellent point (and props to HB too for making basically the same point). Many U.S. players turn down the invitation to play for the U.S. team. Shaquille O'Neil and Kobe Bryant to name just two off the top of my head, have never been on a national team AFAIK.

 

Which brings another question: What would take to make the main USA players on these sports to step up on international competitions?

Obviously patriotism is not enough. Would pouring loads of money be enough? And is it demanding money to represent your own country an ethical action?

 

Money is rarely going to be a consideration for most players. Think about it - these guys are millionaires already. The Kobes and Shaqs of the world are millionaires so many times over and over again, that if they never earn another penny for the rest of their life, they'll still have more money than they or their families can ever hope to spend. Money cannot possibly be a motivational factor when it's in virtually limitless supply to them already.

Truth be told, it is actually the owners of the teams (who are also absurdly wealthy) that encourage players not to compete in these tournaments. Owners make money because poor schmoes like me go to the games to see the star players. If one of the star players goes to play in an international competition and gets hurt, there is less incentive for fans to show up at games because they know the star player won't be playing.

In essence, the player being well rested and healthy for his team at home is given higher priority than representing a national team playing in a world wide competition. So this does go beyond the ethical question of money. Even if the U.S. decided to pony up $1 million to every player that played on a national team, it is unlikely that this would motivate the star players of the game to go and play. Some one like Kobe who has something ridiculous like a 7-year $84 million contract with the Lakers, and makes tens of millions more in advertising and endorsements simply isn't going to be swayed to the play for the U.S. by waving another paycheck in front of him.

Now it's more than fair to question the patriotism, national loyalty or sense of civil duty when it comes to these people, but at least we can take greed off the list of potential problems.

 

The money is exactly the issue. You pay big salaries for so-so players, so they are more focused on the domestic cups and all that even IF they do join the international cups.

Example: Italy have always been the same in Football. This year they won. Why is that? Because, many knew that they had to show that they're good if they are to find a new team, since many of the players were playing in the affected teams. This also happened in '82, last time they won.

 

Which would never happen in NZ, where playing for the national team is the dream that every kid grows up with.

In rugby, the best players give their 20s to the national team and as they start to fade in their 30s, they go off to earn their fortunes playing out their twilight years in England, France, or Japan, where for some reason, they pay millions to have fading superstars play in their club competitions.

 

Aldeth: How do the people of the in the US feel about these player’s refusal to play on international events. If the people don’t give a s**t about it, so why should the player? So maybe it isn’t the player's fault, or the club owner's as you pointed, as much as it is the public’s fault.

HB: Here is just the same. If any of the young Brazilians football players just refused to play for the national team he would pretty much lose all his credibility among his countrymen, it wouldn’t matter how good he was, He would never earn as much prestige as someone playing for the national team.

Rutkowski: I think that for basketball that is even truer, as the NBA is a much bigger event, in terms of attention, than any international basketball competition. In football that is less prone to happen given the fact that the World Cup is, by far, the main attraction, and no national or regional league attracts that much attention.

[ September 26, 2006, 21:50: Message edited by: Atmer ]

 

This is almost what happened to English cricket (almost all cricket playing nations were part of the British Commonwealth) - NOT because we were hypothetically the best, but they certainly upped their game.

It is not a surprise, from my cynical point of view. As an Englishman (ok, a Brit), I have been taught quite a list of sports that "we" have "invented".
From that, I look at it as "We give these sports to the rest of the world, and, over time, they improve on them."
(although "continental" diving in football is NOT an improvement, nor is acting as though you've been shot in the head after a ball hits your knees, Atmer! )

Maybe this could also be a factor...

 

Off topic: Diving is not a brazilian privilege, although I realize that many brazilian players are quite skilled in it. About the whole Rivaldo deal, the guy is an artist, that it’s all.

Can’t say much about cricket, after all, I know less about cricket than I do about baseball. In case someone is wondering, I know nothing about baseball...

 

I have trouble grasping the idea that someone would refuse the chance to play for their country.

 

But Barmy if you look at Rugby and Football in the Uk at the moment, both are becoming club before country regimes. This is where cricket has got it right by contracting the playes they expect to play most of the tests and ODI's, the counties can save money on their salaries but still have recourse to them.

 

I don't see English footballers rejecting England calls. In fact, most see appearing for their country at the World Cup the pinacle of their career (as it should be).

 

Take Spanish football team: first, look at the big teams like Barça, Madrid, etc., they pay zillions to get the best players in the world, at the end, they have just 2 or 3 Spanish players in the field. So local football players end in the bench or in poor teams.
Second, the few good Spanish players are in a political fight: 'Catalunya is not Spain' or 'Euskadi is free'. etc.. so Catalonian players don't want to play with 'madrilistas', and a long etc.
So, for me, is ovious that the national team will never win anything. They promote foreigner players more than locals.
Lately, same thing happens in USA: NHL with all the eastern players, MLB with latin people, etc.
Nowadays, money make the world go round: a player with a check of millions per season, has a lot to lose in world events, so, or they play poorly or just don't go.

 

I think it's more of a teamwork factor. USA keeps sending the NBA superstars to the World Championships( and baseball superstars for it). Those people haven't learned to work as a team as they would have if they were with their original team.

I only speak from high school experience since last year I went to the all-state baseball team as a pitcher/center fielder. The whole team was unsure of everyone else, what they could do and what they couldn't do, and so we cut throws when we shouldn't have , or vice versa, people weren't ready for a play that they didn't think the other person could make etc. Team work is as important or more important than skill & talent, and US World Champion Ship teams aren't TEAMS, they are just a bunch of all stars thrown together

 

How much teamwork is really required in baseball?

 

If you have 2 bad outfielders in baseball, your team will suck. If your shortstop suck, the team will do. If your pitcher can't get along with the catcher, things won't work. If the shortstop hates first baseman, probably things won't work either.
I don't know much about cricket, but for the few things I saw, is almost like it.

 

Yeah, I agree with LoS Drizzt about teamwork. I think that's why they lost in basketball - they all wanted the ball. And I also think that's why Canada won the 2002 Olympic Gold medal in hockey - the Sakic-Iginla-Gagne line had instant chemistry.

But baseball... I don't think teamwork really matters, as long as you are communicating. If the ball comes your way, go and catch it. If you hate your outfielder mate and he comes over to catch the ball too, just make sure you know who's catching it (communication). I'm sure you both want to win the game even if you don't like each other. But pitcher/catcher relation is more important - the worse that could happen is you can't agree on a pitch to throw, get signals crossed up and end up with a wild pitch or pass ball.

 

No, teamwork does matter... You just get chemistry with the team, when you get familiar with people you don't have to talk much, and everything just goes smoother.

I've played on some very high caliber teams and leagues and the teams that had chemistry and teamwork are the ones that win.