when do good tactics become cheap tactics?

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Pretty self explanatory topic, tell us all about what tactics you think are good and non cheesy, and the tactics that are cheap and cheesy.

My current party right now is:

Blade
Jahiera
Aerie

My general way of taking on groups that are generaly larger and more powerufl then mine is in this order usually.

-Aerie summons monster's with a wand.
-Jaheira casts insect swarm 1 or 2 time's
-Blade uses Harp of Pandemonium to buy a few extra rounds.
-Jaheira summons 2 Werebears which absolutly rock at low levels, I only found out about them today, they can wipe the floor with werewolves.
-all charcters cast offensive/buffing/disabling spells.

By this point the odds are tipped in my favour against most of the parties in the game but the most powerful.

[ December 04, 2003, 00:47: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

I would have to say that good tactics become cheap when they get too effective, that's up to personal disretion though. Some tactics are born cheap when they take advantage of game quirks but what constitutes a quirk is also up for grabs.

 

Good tactic's become cheap, as has been talked about so often before, when they are used to often; used to to greater effect or take advantage of a fault in the game.

 

A tactic that is effective because its used against a computer opponent when a real-thinking opponent could counter it easily is cheap. (e.g. opening a door, casting cloudkill in room, shutting door - however I can see how this could not be cheap if you had all your melee characters with high strength at the door at the time that would hold it shut to keep the enemy from opening it)

 

I guess it all comes down to how you would define cheap. Which results in the question asked been one of these questions which vary from person to person, due to their diffinition of cheap.

 

I did a search for tactic's and found character specific tactics and all things cheesy.

Maybe I didn't look hard enough but what I'm searching for is what tactics people use that are not exploits, or cheesy. There's enough topics about that.

I re-read my post and decided I should be more specific then so...

What tactics would you use with certain party combinations, and situation's that do not involve taking advantage of your knowledge of been through the game for the umpteenth time.

So no prebuffing tactics unless your party is supposed to know, what lies ahead, facing Bodhi in Ch6 is a legitimate example.


This is starting to get long winded so I'll shut up now

 

For ultimate destruction, use the following:

A fighter/kensai class
Minsc
Korgan
Keldorn
Anomen (if you can ignore his patheticness)
Aerie (healing and buffing)

Now, simply cast bless from Aerie and Aid from Anomen. Then RUSH 'EM! Every time this always works.

Its also fun to do. But be careful and always rest up to get those healing and ahem, resurrection spells, up to scratch.

 

Well, here's about the first things that come to mind when asked about cheesy tactics:

Setting lots of traps around a not-hostile enemy so that he dies as soon as going hostile (ie. Firkraag)

Setting traps where you know an enemy is going to spawn (Lots of people do this to Melissan)

Fake-talk (this goes beyond cheese and borders on cheating)

Changing items because you know exactly what's coming (You just happened to have that Protection vs. Magic scroll whenever you encountered Kangaxx)

Getting unlimited casts out of a scroll by using simulacrum

Summoning multiple planetars with a projected image

There's no way I can think of to make any of these legitimate. Things that are:

Pausing the battle as soon as you see the enemy in the screen (or hear them casting) and buff yourself

Using Protection from Undead scrolls when fighting Bodhi (your character knows he's going to be fighting vamps, after all)

Using SK to give yourself 25s in all stats (actually, this isn't, just wanted to see if you were paying attention)

Attacking creatures while they're still blue (ambush, anyone?)

 

@Rastor

I think that there are some extenuating circumstances in your list of tactics.

For example, what if after talking to Firkragg and not fighting him right away you go behind hime and set some traps. Or what if you happen to set traps all around and your enemies chase you and get taken out.

As for the simulacrum and projected image issues, if you have the ability to create and army of yourself, would you not do it (honestly now, twenty of me and Kangaxx or whatnot wouldn't last a second).

As for the fake talk, I agree with you. That is a big .

 

Excuse me Mr. Dragon, would you please lift your tail so I can put a trap there? Somehow I think that he can see everything in his lair and that he'll go hostile right away if he sees you setting a trap.

I see nothing wrong with luring enemies into a trap.

Agreed, but it's a bug. You shouldn't be able to summon 30 planetars for example, but it's possible. By using Project Image, the regular mage should not be useable at all (not sure if this is how it works or not). Basically, Project Image should clone yourself and then put the real you under a stun spell until the image is dispelled or destroyed.

What I was really referring to with that, though, is the ability to get unlimited summons by using Project Image, which is a bug.

 

A fighter/kensai class
Minsc
Korgan
Keldorn
Anomen (if you can ignore his patheticness)
Aerie (healing and buffing)

Honestly: For ultimate destruction you need something a bit better than that...

Sorcerer, F/M, F/T, Inquisitor, Archer, R/C.

Thats prolly one of the better parties you can have in the game. Throw in blade instead of archer if u want improved song and a bit more variety up front. Course if you know how to play u wont be using anything but your sorc by late game anyway. (Its really sad how easy it is to solo with sorc once you get wish, you never have to rest again...)

 

@ Dangerous Beans:
How about some really powerful mages? Tolgerias is not that powerful, but I think your party has to be scraped off from the ceiling after an encounter with him. Aerie is the only one able to cast breach or similar, and she's quite frail and multi-class, which makes her advance quite slowly when it comes obtaining mage-spells.

@ Strifestrike:
I got limited wish and thought "amazing! I don't have to rest, I'll just restore my spells!" (restore my spells to the point they were BEFORE memorizing them) Blah! Just have to wait until I get the real Wish.

Cheap tactic would be the one where cowled enforcers and Amnish soldiers whack Valen when in gaseous form and my mage/thief/fighter spices them with cloudkill or arrows.

 

@Rastor

Yeah, I guess that he might notice, but, you know, theives are stealthy and stuff...

And with the project image I know it stuns the real mage, but doesn't simulacrum make a complete copy without stunning the original?

@Mayfairy

For the restoring of the spells, if you have a higher wisdom, you will be able to actually resore your spells. The whole 'less wise caster not getting what the expect' sort of thing.

 

No. The copy is 60% of your xp, and does not have your best spells (because it won't be high enough to mem them). It doesn't stun the original though.

Always drink insight potions before using any 'Wish' spell.