When is it best to enter Watcher's Keep?

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Does anyone take advatange of the loot in Watcher's keep whilst playing in SOA or do you wait until TOB when you get your bonuses from hell ? It's possible to get the Short sword of mask +4 and the Firetooth crossbow +4 (infinite +4 bolts with fire damage) without even entering the keep. Useful if your in the early stages of SOA. I personally wait till I get the bonuses from hell. But I can imagine how much easier the game would be if your character were in possession of watcher's keep items like Spectral Brand +4, Arguvadal +4, Foebane +3, Usuno's blade +4 whilst playing in SOA.

[ August 23, 2006, 23:03: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

I always wait until ToB. While the first couple of levels of Watcher's Keep would be doable for an SoA party, it would feel really wrong to discover that the Prince of Demons is breaking free, buy a few items from the wardens, and then say "see ya in a couple of months"

 

Absolutely. This is one of the first stops I make as soon as I have enough money. This is definitely a great stop before hitting the DeArnise Keep or the druid grove, because the crossbow is great against the trolls.

As for the rest of the keep - I've never tried it with a party less than level 17, but as I understand it the difficulty is adjusted based on your character level. So you really can go in there any time you feel like it. Despite that, I think you'd be crazy to go in there any less than level 13 or so. But that's me.

 

i start the keep a little while after i can raise dead x at least 3, ie two priests have 3 raise deads between them.

and i will do the keep until i can go no further, i.e i keep dying. this is usually around the three keys on level 5/demegorgon, then come back when im more powerful, i know this is what truper said he would rather not do, it does seem a little cheap.

but i guess im just that kind of person

 

I wait until ToB unless there is something I really want from the Helmite store or the first level.

 

I go over whenever I feel that my chatacers can stand their own. Although I normally go take the weapons in the store and on the first floor inside A.S.A.P.

 

The other factor that may affect doing the Watchers Keep in SOA is Sarevok. There's a lot of experience to be had from the keep and Sarevok is only available in TOB if anyone planned on recruiting him. So it makes sense to delay plundering the watcher's keep. Still the loot is tempting.

 

I do the first level as soon as I can to get the infinite ammo items (Quiver & Case of Plenty, and the Crimson Dart). But when you do, keep your main character just inside the front door and have the others shut doors behind them. The reason to do this is a Vampiric Horror (or two) in the main room that are scripted to zero in on the main character, who you don't want to be dealing with at this point. Shutting the doors means they won't have an avenue to come after him, and they'll just butt their heads against the main door right in front of him (you'd think those non-corporeals could go through the cracks in the door ).

 

I generally do the keep as the last thing in Chapter 2, after all the stronghold, NPC, and miscellaneous quests. By then, the characters are high enough level to survive the first few levels, and by the time the finish those, they're ususally high enough level to finish the rest. Then it's on to Aran and Spellhold.

 

I always go there before sailing to Spellhold and buy that potion case and return. I don't buy anything else.

If i play with a xbow user someday (or if i can stop soloing and take Jan or Keldorn with me) i would buy Firetooth too.

 

Yeah, Firetooth is a good weapon for the D'Arnise Keep and the Druid Grove - if you have someone who can use it. I think it's a heavy crossbow, so it's useless to just about all of the NPCs except Keldorn. My normal plan is to head to D'Arnise first and get the acid head for the Flail of the Ages with as little fighting as possible, and then combine the acid and cold heads with the flail before wiping out the rest of the keep. I usually have SOMEONE who is able to use bows, and with the 20 fire arrows you get outside the keep, and the number of acid and fire arrows you find inside, you generally have enough to deal with the trolls, especially considering you can fire normal arrows at them until they fall over and then kill them with a single fire/acid arrow. After finishing the keep, the Druid Grove is a breeze, as you have two weapons that can kill trolls.

One thing Fel pointed out that I never even considered - it's probably worth going to the keep just for the quiver of plenty (and/or case/bag of plenty depending on party setup). That's especially true if Cromwell can upgrade it to +2. (I know Cespenar can, but I never tried it with Cromwell.) What do you have to fight on the first level to get those items? I'm trying to envision the first level of the keep, and other than the really big battle for performing the ritual which is easy to avoid, I don't think there's much there. The Vampiric Horrors are potentially problematic, but certainly can be avoided if you're smart enough not to open the big double doors as soon as you walk in - I seem to remember you can go all along the perimeter, never entering the main chamber. I remember some spiders, a room full of mustard jellies (also avoidable IIRC) and that's about it. Now there are several traps, so that might be the limiting factor - do it as soon as you get a thief with a high level in find/remove traps.

 

My usual order of things is
Circus
Copper Coronet/Slavers/lillarcor
Hold D'Arnise
Trademeet (which I return to later for skindancer end)
Watcher's Keep level 1 including opening the portal.

By doing this I get the infinite ammo items, the ammo belt, firetooth, and lots of XP. I then leave everything else to ToB, levels 2 onwards are where it starts getting tough and interesting.

 

I pretty much do the same as DarkStrider. I always do Watcher's Keep level 1 in SoA and the rest in ToB. Occasionally I do level 2 late in SoA, depends on how I feel.

 

No, Cromwell can't do any Cespenar upgrades.

The way I do it, you circle around to the left, fighting a Clay Golem and a six-creature spawn of either shadows or orogs. Leaving the main character at the front door means you can cross the main hall unmolested, but there's another six-spawn of shadows or orogs, plus a Spellhaunt. Nothing at all hard.

 

I usually save the Keep until ToB because at that stage there aren't as many quests to do compared to SoA.

 

Side note: it's always bugged me that you can get the poison flail head for the FoA in SoA, but you can't upgrade it via Nalia's keep forge OR through Cromwell. Someone should fix that with a mod.

 

The first couple levels of Watchers really aren't that bad if you have some levels under your belt. If you have a human CHARNAME you're trying to dual, you want all the early XP you can get, and there's some good loot to be bought outside and found on the upper levels. Also as mentioned, grabbing the infinite quivers makes an archer's life much easier.

 

Sometimes I'll dip in for some items before Chapter 4, and I'll usually do the first level before finishing SoA, but no more.

I'll only dip in for the Quiver & Bag of Plenty, and buy some stuff from the merchants outside if I plan on taking Sarevok with me (I like him to do as much as possible. This way you get more time with him, his dialogues, and his sword!).

 

I just finished the first level with little problems. I didn't get Unsio's blade as the statue that drops it wasn't there and I figured out what those 2 wardstones are for. I'm glad my pally PC is immune to level drain.

 

You'd think those non-corporeals could go through THE DOOR ITSELF .

Back on topic, I usually wait until I have Sarevok along to boost his thief-class. Yes, I know, Carsomyr after I get UAI, how uninventive...