which is better, ranger(archer) or figher?

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which is better

fighter with grand master in longbow or ranger with archer kit?

i want to be an excellent missle character?

if i was a figher/thief, can i have two strongholds?

 

Archers are the best with missile weapons. I think they can get grand mastery with bows as well, but are restricted in melee weapons. Plus the called shot abilities.

 

Archer is better with long range, plus they get druid spells, called shot, and dual wielding practically built-in. Well, you would have to unequip your bow to dual wield but its nice watching them work. You can't have more than one stronghold, with a fighter/thief you would have to choose the keep or the thieves guild.

 

As for fighters and missiles: Just take Mazzy: Her main advantage is that you can finally give her grandmastery with the bow, ** on single weapon style and the rest on shortswords. She can wear a full plate, bracs of archery and it well able to defend well even in melee - and with cutthroat there is a +4 weapon available.

Playing a fighter-thief I never had any problems to get the De´Arnise Keep AND the thieves guild - usually doing the first as a thing closer to my heart. A dc fighter thief would be just as formidable as Mazzy as a ranged weapon fighter for he can get some 12* (at least my one (lvl-6/*) did), beeing inferior only in terms of THACO.

The archer basically is the kensai-pendant using ranged weapons. Give him the shadow dragon armor and the "Stromg arm" or a good crossbw he will do enormous damage with his special ability "aimed shot". With his comparately low AC I wouldn´t make him dualwield but give him single weapon style instead. You won´t have the time to unequip the bow and switch to a sword in melee.

It´s a question of what you prefer - I think the archer is more difficult to play.

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited March 30, 2001).]

 

Rags got it again.

2 strongholds no problem.

And it's only a matter of preference and team make-up as to which you choose, but the fighter will get more hit points...

 

I even tried to have three strongholds. The last game I am running with a F/M/T. It is unfortunately impossible to have three strongholds. I sepend half a day trying to do them in different order, to no avail. You have to choose either to have the Sphere of the Guild. The De'Arnise hold you get no problem.

 

I think that indeed the fighter/thief is the best options for an archer can't use any melee-weapon and a fighter-thief can use a good bow (gesen?) AND Celestrial Fury/Cutthroat.

 

With no profiecy in a weapon you can better use no weapon :-( A fighter with Thaco of 15 or something isn't very useful.

 

Yes BTA, that precisely is the archers weak spot that makes him more difficult to play! He has just * for the melee weapon, so you need single weapon style (alternatively: two-handed weapon style though I wouldn´t choose it) to maximise his effectiveness in melee (for emergency use only!).

An archer needs the boots of speed to be able to keep in a safe distance from his enemies to play out his strengths.

 

I bet that anyone who has a fighter of any kind, dualled, multi, whatever, will always have the most kills in the party.
I've gone through as a bunch of different characters and the only on who didn't have the most kills on the team, was a 100% mage.

Maybe I/we just pay more attention to the character we create?

 

I guess you´re pretty right toast - and be aware of BTA, he´s almost as much an archer as Sir Bel´s a pally or I´m a thief ... this topic could be endless

Where´s a meleeprone fighter to say that missile weapons are for cheating cowwards only?

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited March 31, 2001).]

 

Well I of course love TRUE pure fighters. I believe they can easily outweigh and outclass an Archer. In fact there are Shields in the game that either reflect and Archer's missles back to them (Shield of Reflection) or greatly reduce missle effectiveness gained by Grand Mastery and Dexterity bonuses (Sheild of the Tower(fortress?) and such).

Additionally there is FULL PLATE ARMOR BABY! There's nothin like it! Archers can't wear it. It's the difference between JR Ewing and mere mortal Bobby Ewing.

-Not to downplay ranged weapons users at all! I use them each and everytime. In fact I believe they are part of any truly successful party. I always end up however with one upfront Fighter and everyone else is ranged attack /air support.



[This message has been edited by Draco Vlasavius (edited March 31, 2001).]

 

Hmm you're right BTA.... but what happens with your Drow-Plate +5 after leaving the Underdark?

But indeed, the shadow-dragon-scale is a great armor and I bet an archer can wear it!

But all that about mellee, why should your archer use melee when he always does more damage with a longbow/crossbow??? Can an archer be an elf? When yes, I think you'd best specialize hem in log sword for elfs have proficiencies on long sword/bow.

Well at the moment I have a paladin with Carsomyr, Giant Hair Crossbow en two-handed-weapon style, al 2 * and it's good enough BUT after follwing this topic I must say I'm now realy interested in an arncher and in the next game I will play one!

 

I still think an archer is by tendency more vulnerable than a fighter due to his lack of armor class and his only proficient melee abilities. I´d like my PC too much to risk him dualwielding then, but I play carefully

However, this isn´t as grave a disadvantage as it seems: it depends on your tactic how vulnerable he is. I agree that in ranged weapons the archer is unbeatable and that a grandmastery fighter-archer is no match for him in that point. A fighter´s just more robust and more flexible - the same applies to the dc fighter-thief (and despite his lack of hit points: A thief can steal! That offers much more fun to play than a ranger! ).

That he can´t wear iron armor also isn´t so bad. The fabulous shadow dragon leather armor (AC 1) is as good as a standard full plate mail and elven chain +4 (except some armor type differences) ... that was enough for me when playing a thief or a mage.

Just make sure that you´ll have someone in front to block enemy onslaught (summoned creatures or fighters) and you´ll enjoy to play the archer quite much. Ranged weapons too were an important factor in every successful ambush I set.

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited March 31, 2001).]

 

Hey there Blackthorne TA! (btw way... Wizard??? I knew it ya damn apple polisher !!) j/k you're no doubt doing an excellent job. No Sylvus??? Yeesh I missed something eh?

Yes at FACE value an Archer seems incredibly potent and actually is against many creatures. They can indeed wear CERTAIN armours in the game.

However. FULL PLATE ARMOR is what rocks! It gives - 3 (-4??) vs Piercing & Missle attacks if I recall. Additionally with the Shields mentioned in above in my post the Archers massive bonuses are eliminated alltogether or his Archery becomes completely inefficient with other 'negatives vs piercing/missles' that these shields offer.

Because a Fighter can theoretically get a -14/15AC in the game without spells, and get the -3/4 vs piercing and/or Missles from FULL PLATE ARMOR, and get shield missle protection up to -7 or reflection of missles alltogether... I believe that a Fighter is still the better choice between the TRUE archer and the TRUE Fighter.

With a massive negative AC and an additional - 10 vs missles on top my Fighter could 'dance' through a shower of arrows. Perhaps even take a nap.

I recognize that Fighters can only get to Mastery level (??? correct???) with a Bow and Archers can get to Grand Mastery with other bonuses offered by Class/Level. But again, these all can be negated. Or even reflected back.

I'm only presenting my case because of my stlye of game play. ONE up front fighter who is nigh invincible due to -AC / massive HP's / THAC0 / #of attacks per round / Melee weapon Grand Mastery / highest Damage delivery by weapon and Strength bonuses.... I pick a Fighter (or eventually the high level Monk) over an Archer. Of course these are all my mere opinions but... yep... I LIKES MY OPINIONS




[This message has been edited by Draco Vlasavius (edited March 31, 2001).]