While I'm sitting here...

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So I'm having my nightshift yet again...

I was thinking of playing a dual class Swashbuckler> cleric. Going from BG1 (easytutu) all the way to the end of ToB. But I never tried this before, so I could use some advise:
1 - Do I get 20 or 25 abilitypoints at level up?
2 - Should I dual at level 5 or level 10 or other?
3 - Wich weapons can I use, the thiefs, the clerics or boths?
Is there anything else I should be aware of?

Regards

 

1-you get 20 points each level

2-swashbucklers get new weapon profs every 4 levels (starting with 2), and since you can only use the club, sling, and staff as a cleric you should probably dual at 5. However, if you want to get three stars in two-weapon fighting and dual wield as a cleric you should dual at 10, that will get you four profs at that point, three for two-weapon fighting one for an actual weapon.

3-cleric weapons; once you dual to a cleric, and from there after, your limited to cleric weapons.

 

1 - 25, only Bounty Hunters get 20.
2 - Depends on how versatile a thief you want. I would suggest at least 10, but if you're only going for a couple skills, you may be able to pull it off with 5.
3 - Only thief weapons before the dual, only cleric weapons after. As such, I would use those swash levels to their fullest, putting two stars in whatever blunt melee weapon you're going to want to use, or maybe slots in two-weapon fighting. And don't forget to switch weapons when you dual; don't take proficiencies in the ones you already have before the dual, maybe taking up flails (FoA) for a while until you get your swash levels back.

 

Yes I was unsure about how many skillpoints one gets, as I remember the manual states 20, but I think Imoen gets 25 in EasyTutu.

I would like to max out in O.L., F.T. and perhaps in P.P. so I should probably go for 10 levs of swashie. Can I detect illusions, I'm unsure of how it works, but this is my bid: press detect traps?

I was thinking of duelwielding flails and/or warhammer (ok for clerics AFAIK). As an alternative maces. That is when I hit the cleric. But when being Swasb. I thought of using either short bow or sling (don't remember if a thief can use sling, but I imagine it)

 

I didn't play with Tutu, but I do have a T/C dual going. She's dualling at level 10 for the Swashbuckler AC bonus. I put her prof in thief weapons - short bow, short sword, long sword. She'll get different profs when she becomes a cleric.

I'm eager to see how she'll be with UAI.

 

Yup. But it only works at point-blank range. Melee that mage, and then detect when he goes invisible. If he Misleads, attack the Mislead image and then hit the Detect button; you'll be whacking the image and trying to disbelieve it at the same time.

Yes, a thief can use a sling (anyone can). But consider where you want to use a sling: do you want to use it as a thief and then wait for your thief levels back to use it again, or wait for the dual to start using slings, or waste a proficiency by taking it in both places? Yes, it's near wasting a proficiency to go for short bows as a thief, IMO Tuigan beats a sling.

 

I didn't know this was i thief weapon... Maybe I could take this and the duelwield flail and longsword when getting my old levels back. Can I then use a scimitar?

Sorry, but how do you get UAI with a T -> C dualled at lev 10? Isn't only for Bards and thiefs?

 

A thief can also wield a scimitar, yes.

 

Yeah, when you dual to a Cleric, and you aren't a high enough level thief for UAI, you're kind of screwed unless you put profs into blunt and so forth.

 

Yes, I thought so. Hmm it leaves me with a problem.

I think I'll go for a dual at lev 12, with 3* in two weapons and 2* in scimitars. Or is it advisable to wait until lev 15 with 3* in two weapons, 2* in scimitars and one * ie long sword considering the impact on when I get my thief skills back?

Hmm any great ideas outthere?

 

No, you won't be able to dual-wield with flails and long swords or flails and scimitars. Thieves can't use flails (before the dual), and clerics can't use those bladed weapons (after the dual).

Club and quarterstaff are the only two weapons that you can use as both a thief and a cleric, and everything else either can be gotten as a cleric after the dual, or won't be usable as a cleric. You're almost bound to waste at least one proficiency just to make your time as a thief less painful. I mean, who wants to run around dual-wielding clubs just because it's the only one-handed weapon you can take proficiencies in now that will still be usable later?

No, you would wait until 15 for better thief skills and an additional Swash bonus. You would wait until level 16 for a sixth proficiency. And waiting that long to get a long sword proficiency is wasted time.

 

yup, you're right. Thanks for the advice. I'll have to waste a prof point or consider the multiclass instead. Hmm I looked foreward to play as human, so maybe I just have to go with that.

 

I didn't know they could detect *that* sort of illusions...I thought it was for finding hidden doors...like the two in the sewers... I'll have to try that out one of these days.

 

If you actually wait until the swash gets UAI before dualling then you get to keep the thief proficiencies once you gain your levels back; however, you won't get to take any more of them. Admittedly this will be rather a long wait, but don't you love the idea of a katana wielding cleric?

 

If you want a katana wielding cleric, get a C/T, and UAI later. Well, you can not have the proficiency, but I guess it hurts little at highest levels. Clerics have the best THAC0 progression after fighters (better than rogues in high levels).

IIRC, Swashy's weapons specialisation does not add an extra attack, right? Then it is not that 'big'. I think. A 19 STR half-orc C/T will have better bonuses at low levels, and you can always use dirty little tool SK to kit him, if you wish.

 

For that matter, one can use the "dirty little tool SK" to add the extra attack. Use the swashie's THACO and AC bonuses along with the cleric's use of heavy armor and buffing spells like DUHM and RM and you have a pretty good combat machine at higher levels.

BTW, I agree that the half-orc C/T kicks butt at lower levels - I'm only trying to suggest alternatives that people may not have considered.

 

I love Swashbucklers, they are suitable for some really interesting strategies and builds. Their specialisation does not grant extra attacks, but hey, they gain some other fantastic bonuses.

But I know that some just hate them as they do not back-stab. Well, a cleric can not backstab with many weapons, so it fits the Swashy kit best. A high level swashy-Cleric, with Crom Faeyr at left hand, and useful buffs, will be as deadly as a spell casting Kensai, with so much better armor too!

 

I think that level 10 should be adequate. I agree with most people that you should consider dualling from swashbuckler to thief in multiples of 5, as that's where the swashbuckler's bonus kicks in. At level 5, you're going to be a pretty crappy thief, whereas if you wait until level 10, you will be very capable.

If you don't have too much of a problem with meta-gaming, you can also compensate for some of your thief skills with equipment, saving you some skill points. For example, if you use the gauntlets of pickpocketing, along with the Ring of Danger Sense and Ring of Lockpicking, you save yourself 70 skill points (I think DS and LP give +25%, while the gloves of pickpocketing give +20%). The Boots of Stealth save you even more points.

Anyway, at level 10, you'll have 9 level ups, so that's 225 skill points, plus your dexterity bonus, plus the 40 (?) you get at startup. Throw in the equipment you can get that raises your scores, and you'll be able to max out a minimum of 4, and more likely 5 skills. Moreover, since backstabbing isn't an issue, that also reduces the need to put points in move silently and hide in shadows, especially considering that once you become a cleric you can cast sanctuary which has a 100% chance of success. So at level 10 you can have pickpockets, open locks, disarm traps, set traps, and probably even detect illusion maxed out (but definitely the first four I listed).

As for proficiencies, a thief gets 2 to start, and will get 3 (I think) more by the time he gets to level 10. I definitely would spend 3 of those 5 points on two weapon style, and worry about the cleric weapons after you become a cleric. What I'm unsure of is once you reactivate your swashbuckler levels, are you allowed to put 2 stars in melee weapons again? I know that dual-classed fighters are allowed to place multiple points in weapon classes once their fighter levels reactivate.

 

Thanks Aldeth for this torough answer. A T->C is really what a good aligned party needs. I really need a good thief and a cleric (I love clerics) an since Nalia sucks at being a thief and I tend to get annoyed by Jan I'll have to build my own.

 

You could take proficiency in staff and dual-wield 2 Staff-Maces. Duel at level 16 Swashbuckler and set your proficiencies up like this:
Level 1: two-weapon style**
Level 4: two-weapon style***
Level 8: Staff*
Level12: Club*
Level16: Club** or

Level 1: two-weapon style**
Level 4: two-weapon style***
Level 8: Staff*
Level12: Staff**
Level16: Two-Handed Weapon Style* or

Level 1: two-weapon style**
Level 4: two-weapon style***
Level 8: Staff*
Level12: Club*
Level16: Sling* or.....
You get the picture