Who Has Reason to Own (& Use) a Gun?

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Spinning off the shooting topic i maybe start another american vs. european discussion, but this burns on my heart since a long time and i don't meet other US people than you.
What's that, sorry, shit like 'right of defending your property with a gun'? Every psycho chicken can get a gun. The 5 year old are on the stand and with 15 they masacre (sp?) their teachers.
In my opinion only hunters have a right to have a (not fist-) gun at home and they have to be instructed and hardly proofed to take care of them, all others which are professional users like police or soldiers should lock them in their baracks or offices.

 

I also don't understand this part of the American law. Why not forbid all kind of guns????

I'm Dutch and I'm getting a little bit sicl of the Americans politicians who always talk about or drugs-laws, that softdrug is legal here (what gives no problems at all) while they legalize weapons so everywhere in the states there are shootings on school, little kids who kill people and other people starting gunfight, it's so sick.

 

In Denmark these laws are very strict (or so I think), only one who has guns are hunters(perhaps other people as well, but no guns allowed in public), law enforcement and then the mafia (unfortunately). I totally agree with your point Bogi.

I heard such a stupid argument for having right to carry in public, how was it...
I think, he asked permission for carrying the gun in public, because it would stabilize his BODY HEAT!
How rediculous can you get?

 

This sounds like a lost battle already but I as an American feel we should have the right to have guns. It is true that some people who have gun shouldn't. I don't think anyone with a criminal record or mental illness should be allowed to own a gun but who not others. The real criminals don't follow the law anyways so they will still have them. Why can't I?

I enjoy target shooting and fell that if I never use my weapon again anyone else, except in self-defense why can't I have one. You may disagree and that is fine but according to the law of the land I can own guns in the US and I choice to excerise that right.

OK I'm ready to get flamed now

 

Voltric, I agree with you 100%. The current American system is messed up, i.e., not enforced. Right now the gun control laws that are in place are not being enforced by the Federal Judges.

Personally, I believe that this is to stir up a media frenzy that will have people demanding that all handguns are taken away & violate our Constitution.

I live in Indiana where any qualified citizen can get a conceal-carry permit for a handgun. I actually live on the outskirts of Gary, IN - which used to be the murder capital of the nation. Since the conceal-carry law was enacted, the murder rate has gone DOWN. Car-jackings have gone DOWN. Imagine that!

Back to the Constitution . . . I'll be the first to admit that it is not a divine document and could be better. However, it is one of the best foundations for government that the world has seen. If my nation can get back to it I think the US will be a much better place.

Okay, now you can flame me with Voltric.

 

As for guns: I can even understand people who like to shoot - I did when I was in the army - IMHO shooting can be a nice sport. I, however, don´t have a gun and I haven´t fired a shot since I left the army.

Generally having a gun in germany is very restricted. You have to be trained to handle a gun and to be reliable (no criminal background, even drunken driving can be a reason to deny the license). Weapons have to be stored in a safe.

As a sports shooter you have to be in a shooting club and be reliable and trained. Their weapon calibre mainly is restricted to .22, though there are also big-bore sports shooters.

Hunters are allowed to have long guns (rifles & shotguns) for hunting and shortguns (pistols/ Revolvers) to prevent weapon theft when on the hunt and to kill a wounded animal.

These are the reasons to own a gun I can accept. A gun for self defence is only acceptable when a person has been threatened massively.
*Normal* people aren´t (and IMHO shouldn´t be) allowed to own guns. The rate of crimes connected with guns in germany is very low.

 

Problem is that there are many accidents with the guns. The real problem is not that civilants have a gun but that also children (where's daddies gun) and psychopats can get them very easily. For in the rich countries there are nowhere more gunfights/accidents then in the states.

 

The rules on lethal weapons and especially guns need to be very strict because of the very natur of this weapon. Nothing good has come of it since gunpowder was invented...
If you are going to give a weapon permit to someone, why not do it like in Norway where you have to be a member of a shooting club for like 2 yrs before you can actually buy a weapon for your self. And you also have to stay a member of this club to keep your weapon.

And I can't believe you guys are defending the american system, sure you can have a gun for target shootng, but you have to prove yorself before you get the license. That's what I think anyway

 

DragonSlayer - the only thing I think is tacky is the fact that we are going on about this in the wake of your tragedy. We should be offering prayers for your friend, not debating the American Second Amendment!

I apologize for my lack of protocol on that one!

 

Sorry Mathetais, but what is a conceal-carry permit?

 

I don't own a gun, but I think every American has a right to own one. That's one of the tradeoffs for freedom and democracy...People CAN do what they want...as long as they understand that there will be consequences to their actions.

Unfortunately, that means knuckleheads can purchase, carry, and use guns. I like to know that if I ever feel like I need one, I can get one. You never know when the King of England will try to exert authority over the "Colonies" again.

 

I'm neither Clint Eastwood nor trained by a secret service so if somebody points with a gun at me i will be very cooperative, owning a gun or not, 'cause I believe persons under stress, like every criminal in action, are very quick on trigger.
IMHO the main problem with guns is the loose of personal involvement, you press a trigger and a few meters away sombody falls.
If you stabb somebody with a knive you have contact and a higher obstructionlevel. That's why guns are more dangerous IMO than kitchen knives.

 

Don't worry about it Mathetais. It's allways good to have a debate on guns that's the only way something will happen.

But thanks anyway...

 

Sir Belarius, I disagree very much in your point of view on freedom and democracy. People still follow a law, the law is just different in different countries when looking upon the gun issue. I tihnk I have as much freedom as a American (US citizen), even though I'm not entitled to a gun, I might be entitled to something else (can't come with any examples though). Being able to get a gun, is not a privilege in my book, rather a when-freaked-out-you-can-make-massdamage-to-society option.


[This message has been edited by Lokken (edited May 30, 2001).]

 

My how times change. Here in Canada gun registration has become mandatory, and I do believe it is illegal to own a handgun outside of a gun club. Makes me wonder how many murders or bank robbers have first checked to see if their gun is registered? I remember shooting pop cans off a fence with a .22 caliber rifle as a kid, or wandering through the woods hunting prairie chickens. Great fun and great memories, but scenes like this are hard to come by these days.

I believe that gun ownership should be closely regulated, but banned altogether - nah. Guns have gotten a bad wrap because of what they have been used for. What is that stupid saying -"Guns don't kill people, people..." well, you get the picture. I myself don't own a gun (except for my pellet gun)

 

Grovflab, a conceal-carry permit would allow me to have a handgun in my briefcase or in a shoulder holster, not in plain sight.

Personally, I do not own a handgun, though we are toying with the idea of a shot-gun for our home (in Gary, IN). We used to have a dog that was deterrent enough for most thieves, but our new boarder collie would just pee himself if someone came in!

A good friend of mine is a policeman in Indiana, and he says that this law has been a huge deterrent state-wide. Thugs are less likely to assail you on the train or at a stop light if they aren't 100% confident that they will have the upper hand. Remember - thieves are cowards.

 

I own quite a few guns. I have them locked in a safe. My Dad still hunts hunts ducks and geese. He gave up big game a long time ago.

Why own a gun? It is our right here. I take my Winchester 30/30 with me when I go hiking in the back country. I'm not paranoid of bear attack but I'd like to be a little more prepared than bear spray. I also like to shoot clay birds (trap and skeet). I've never killed anything in my life.

 

Sir Bel: Well, the second amandment has been written some time ago .... times are changing ....

Don´t get me wrong here, democracy and constitution are fine things but from my ignorant continental point of view I simply doubt if there is still a need to defend against british forces and indians alike (AFAIK that were among the reasons to make this certain law). Please correct me if I´m wrong ...

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited May 30, 2001).]

 

Ragusa;

I'll let Bel speak his own peace.

IMHO, we don't need guns to stop the Brits anymore. I think our vices have done that! (Bad TV, etc)

However, we did have a past president, who was VERY anti-gun, selling nuclear secrets to the Chinese for campaign financing. I'm guessing that we're going to have to enforce the Second Amendment or learn to speak Chinese!

Yeah, that may be a stretch, but as one man said, the price of democracy is vigilance. I believe that it is my job as an American Citizen to be proactive about maintaining my freedom. Freedom is much easier to maintain than to win back.

 

Ragusa,

It is true that times have changed since the founding the US in 1775 but the concept has not. The fact that most American 'can' own a gun is one reason that our government will never be overthrown. I'm not say we are going to march on Washington or anything crazy like that but at the most basic level having a gun allows a person to defend their family and land. Do I think 'they' are coming to get us, NO. But it is always there as a reminder to the government that this is a land of the people and for it.

Times have changed but I hope the fronteer spirt that has made our nation great will never be crushed.

And BTW this has been a much more civilized debate than I expected. Thanks for your intelligent contributions.