Why Can't I Cast Harm?!?

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OK, clicked on the Harm icon, moved cursor over to creature, sword icon comes up (indicating a weapon attack) and not the spell icon indicating I was casting a spell. WTF?

 

You cast Harm on yourself, not on enemy creature. The spell creates weapon, which you then use to hit enemy. If you miss, then it disappears without doing anything.

 

Yeah, it's like casting Melf Minute Meteors, or Flame Blade if you're more familiar with those.

Cast harm and wait until the chanting is finished. You should see your attack icon change. Don't move until it is done or else the spell will be cancelled. Then attack the monster physically.

 

You must still hit, though the victim is not allowed a saving throw. But MR or protection spells will halt it cold.

 

OK, so you get something like a weapon to attack the creature with? Is it considered a magical weapon with a certain + to hit? Is it a standard weapon? Do you have at least proficiency on the attack roll?

 

Harm is +6 enchanted, so it can hit any creature unless it is immune to or protected from magical weapons. Will stoneskin halt it? Spell turning/trap does stop it I guess, since SoM's Spell trap saved my PC's life times and times again against the way too cheesy Harms of Improved Sendai. (ranged, auto-hit, ignore MR) ( )

I think it is THACO bonus is only +2, and it does not gain proficiency or huge STR bonuses AFAIK.

This can differ between other 'touch' spells, like cause wounds, slay living, and mage variants even.

 

well one thing is to remember what is giving you the strength bonus. As I realized from Viconia last night when casting harm on Gromnir. If it's a weapon giving you your strength bonus you actually unequip the weapon when the spell is active. Then re-equip the weapon in the first slot. I'm gonna consider trying it with a belt instead later and see if it makes a real difference later. I'll try to remember to let you guys know if that changes things.

 

I think that harm is over-rated. I've NEVER had it work effectively in a battle (unless the battle was so easy as to make it pointless anyways). The only use I have had for it was if I wanted to pratically instakill a dragon, and only then if I do the cheesy "reload until harm works" tactic.

 

O.K., from some elementary poking around in DLTCEP: Harm creates the item HARM in your inventory (one for all you CLUA fans out there ), which is a Hand-to-Hand item that uses the (redundant) large sword proficiency and does 256d179 (!!! !!!) damage, at +2 THAC0 and with an enchantment of +6 (as Silverstar correctly stated). It's also listed as both silver and cold iron, so as it will hit creatures who have more complicated immunities than just "requires +x to hit", like lycanthropes. Also, it's not tagged to take strength into account for any purpose (either THAC0 or damage), so only spells that modify THAC0 directly are of any use for hitting your intended target. So, Bless would help, whereas DUHM wouldn't. Which makes sense, as you're only supposed to have to touch the target to get the effect.

That also probably explains why it's difficult to get working consistently; without any STR bonus & only +2 THAC0 it's difficult for a priest with weak THAC0 to contact hard targets with it. Although, with the right buffing spells it'd certainly be feasible... But I think I'll stick to backstabbing, all the same.

 

It's casting time has been my only impracticality. that and you can't cast it and then pass through any door that requires a save. otherwise I've found it useful. Usually in combination with other party members. they hold a monster off and keep it's focus and then I can come in with my cleric and hit them with harm. I did it to both Gromnir and one of the mages in that same fight and managed to hit them both so they were easily taken out quickly there after instead of giving me headaches.

 

We have discussed with Felinoid about Harm here , a few days ago.
Like Magpie said when Harm is active it ignores STR bonus.No Righteous Magic or wielding Crom Fayer will improve your THACO when Harm is active.
But the strange thing is that when my cleric casts Harm,unarmed,his THACO from 0 goes to +2 ! It doesn't make any sense at all,since Harm should confer a +2 THACO bonus and not penalty.
Felinoid said,correctly,about a non-proficiency penalty ( 3 points) but even with the penalty the final THACO should be +1 and not +2.Very strange

Anyway spells that will improve your THACO with Harm are: Holy Power, Bless,Aid,Chant (and his Boon for a Priest of Lathander).
I usually cast only Holy Power, then Harm and attack.If the Target is succesfuly harmed he will be Near Death with 1 HP left.You can finish him off in many ways.I usually prefer the Ring of the Ram or the Wand of Magic Missiles (if he doesn't have magic resistance).

Stoneskins/Ironskins will not stop Harm.But can protect you:

- Magic Resistance
- Defensive spells like Spell Trap,Spell Turning etc.
- Prot.f.Magical weapons
- Shield of the Archons
- Cloak of cheese and P.f.Magic scroll
- SI: Necromancy

 

What are you wielding before you Cast harm out of curiosity?

 

Since weapons don't give any bonus when Harm is active,it doesn't matter.Your THACO is automatically set to +2 (at least for my cleric,without buffs).

But you must not wield any weapon in the off-hand,otherwise there will be an additional penalty to your THACO.

 

Harm is a very powerful weapon if used correctly. Attack, if it is succesful, launch a MM from the wand of missiles and bang, big guy dead. big time.

In IWD it allows a save vs spells to resist the effect, how crap! So know its value in BG2 while you can!

 

@nataben1314: Harm is definitely not over-rated! Especially if you're playing a Wild Mage/Cleric...

As you might see once I get around to updating my other thread with regards to Improved Abazigal, I took out all the drakes with one casting of Timestop and Harm...after casting Improved Haste beforehand of course...

It saved me a lot of grief as I only had Abazigal and the purple dragon to deal with afterwards.

Not to mention Yagashura, or Firkraag or the Chromatic Demon for my solo cleric (at the time)...

 

Well I suppose it must be useful in a situation like that where you can cast Time Stop, but in both my solos (fighter/cleric and singleclass cleric of lathander) I never really used harm at all.

The only times harm would be useful in an unmodded game is early on, like if you want to take out Firkraag or something really early. And when you try using it early on it seems to NEVER work. By the time your Thac0 is good enough to be able to use harm effectively you don't need it anymore! My F/C just did buffs + melee and my singleclass cleric just walked through everything in the game with Righteous Magic + Boon of Lathander + Energy Blades.

I think harm's usefulness comes out in a modded game. It's just not worth the trouble of casting it in an unmodded game.

 

Well I brought up what weapon your wielding before harm is cast because that might account for that Extra point lost that your ending up at with a two point penalty on your thaco instead of a 1 point penalty. Weapon bonuses do alter your Thac0 as well and when you switch weapons you get different bonuses so they can change.