Why do you dislike the US?

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I've been reading a few articles lately about this and it got me curious. I also saw a thread below about what topics here are the most irritating to people and I had an idea. I went back, and unscientifically looked over the topics that showed up for the last year. 25% of them contained negative remarks about the US. Of those, 60% (59.38 actually) were started by non- US citizens. Of the topics started by Americans, a number (should've thought to count at the time) didn't start out as touching on the US but were more general. Another interesting point is that the numbers are a bit skewed because two people, and one in particular, who are American just started a large number of threads in a relatively short time frame. The threads started by non-US citizens that become critical cover a wider timeline imo and those starting the threads are a little more diverse, though, there are strong consistencies there.

Now, some of those criticizing strike me as not being dogmatic and rather reasonable. Just as a way of example, and I hope they don't mind, I'd point at Sprite and Viking. Both can be crtical of the US but at the same time you see posts where they also agree. What is interesting to me though is the number of posters that have nothing positive to say about the US over the course of a year or do so only as a perfunctory way such as, "I don't hate the people, I just hate...."

So, how about it. Why do you

1) personally dislike the US? culture, policy, etc

2) think other people dislike the US?

Now, here is what I'm requesting not to be included in the responses. Lubby dubby crap about how you really don't dislike the people you just... yada yada yada. We'll assume that to begin with just for the sake of discussion (if you really dislike the people, please state so too though.) This isn't a veiled attempt to search fro compliments, don't want em. I suppose if you feel you absolutely must to give your full rounded opinion go ahead but... well, you get the idea. Because of the nature of the request platitudes aren't convincing.

I'm also requesting that if you disagree with what is being said about the US that you refrain from debating it in this thread as it will... potentially cause it to degenerate I suppose.

I've got some thoughts on this now, but am going to sit back for a while and just read. Maybe I should even open a new thread to talk about some of the things these articles have brought to mind.

I'd also like to thank anyone willing to answer in advance for taking their time to do so; I look forward to reading any responses. thanks.

 

Well, most of the people dislike Bush not US.

 

That's an interesting question. And I think it's nearly always (well at least for me) a Love-Hate realationship.

I love America. And I hate America. Both is true.

I love american movies (from Star-Wars to Casablanca, from John-Wayne western (which I watched with my Grand-Ma) to Matrix. )

I love american Books and writers. (from Grisham to Mark Twain and Edgar Allan Poe).

I love Coca-Cola and Mc-Donalds (but I shouldn't eat there too much)

I love the US-Constitution (especially the first amendment). I love James Madison and Thomas Jefferson (even if he was a slave holder (no one is perfect)) and their Ideas.

I love American CPRG Games

But I dislike US Foreign Policies, George Bush, Ashcroft and Donald "old Eurpe doesn't count" Rumsfield.

And I don't like being told "you are either 100% for us (i.e. the Bush administration) or 100% against us"

Or things like: "If the French don't do what we say, we just boycott them"

[ April 03, 2003, 15:59: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

Well, HECK!

I was just going to post "Americans are just fat nasties." and leave it at that. But since this is the Alley, I can't.

In the end, there is a certain amount of "envy" abou t it all. I'm not saying all the other nations wants to be the US; I'm saying that they all want the economy strength and luxuries and ability that we have. They want all the "good" things, without having the "bad".

Europe (and other nations, but I have had more exposure to European history than anything else) is in a pretty interesting position. They've had to live so close to one another, with so many different languages defining their various cultures, that "domestic issues" have become second nature.

Look at the movies that come out of Europe. They are all dramas, with maybe a little action thrown in as a plot device. You can have full nudity, and the movie is still "PG"; but throw in some murders, and the movie becomes "NC-17".

I think America could learn (God, if we could only ship the all the Puritans off so some uncharted desert isle, for a while) quite a bit from the Europeans and Asians.

 

That's what we did

All you southern baptists and calvinists, greetings from the motherland

[ April 03, 2003, 17:50: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

It is a love hate relationship for as for many others, I see all the movies, I have plenty of American friends the basis of what the US was founded on is something to be very proud of.

What I do not like is what it seems to have degenerated into. The democracy in the US is in my eyes weak and abused and the will of the people (which all too often sadly doesnt even seem to exist) is completely ignored by the ruling elite. An electoral system just doesnt work very well with a good democracy.

I also really dislike that the US has reintroduced religion into politics, something I had hoped would be isolated to small theocratic horrostates in the Middle East where the people were surpressed. Faith and politics are a dangerous mix in my book.

There are plenty of things that I dislike, the entire 'you can make it if you just try hard enough' attitude and the view that it is more or less your own fault if you dont make it is something I find to be a pretty nasty view of humanity. The list can go on.

Of course the foreign policy is mightily important as well, the US arrogance when it comes to foreign policy is annoying especially since they have no real reason for being arrogant except for the fact that they have hte biggest stick. If they had been successful in what they claim they are and if they had been as benevolent throughout history as they was in Europe after WW2 I could take the arrogance but they havent so it jars my ears.

Now I am going to say what you dont want to hear Laches, I like the people I like individuals. I like you, I like most people here on the boards. Heck I even think Darkwolf seems to be a pretty good person that I could imagine myself hangin out with. People arent a society or a goverment, a government representing the people (even if that might be questioned when it comes to the US) and a society is all the people put together but is not the individuals. But I really think the entire political system in the US needs an overhaul, mostly for the good of its own people.

Most of these things wouldnt have mattered if the US had been a small country with little or no influence and there are plenty of other countries that I have problems with as well. Not the least all dictatorships and mock democracies out there but you dont here very many of them thumping their own chests claiming to be the best, most free and the peak and glory of human civilisation and democracy.

Everything the US do affects everyone so it is bound to elicit comments and thoughts, most of which are negative and I have self insight enough to know that envy do play a part in my feelings even if it is not a big part and I do my best to ignore it.

I love the US though, I have been there and it was wonderful. The US has the most friendly, helpful and open people I have ever met and they can take in a stranger and treat him wonderfully without hesitation. Many of my opinions could be because I think such a wonderful people deserve better than what they have?

 

My view on America:
Capitalism, Individualism, contests and stress.
People don't seem to work so they can live. They live for their work.

I can be wrong, but there are a lot of Americans in my country who would agree.

 

I don't dislike the US.

I dislike the idiots amongst its population. Just as much as I dislike the idiots amongst mine. It's just that the US Idiots seem to be a lot louder than those in my own neighbourhoud.

Oh and Joac, you might like this. From my good friend George Carlin:

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State.
My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own,
so both of them together is certain death."

 

A few questons, mainly because the "confused" has me confused.

1. How has the US "re-introduced" relegion into politics?

2. What, specificially, is wrong with the electoral system.

3. "There are plenty of things that I dislike, the entire 'you can make it if you just try hard enough' attitude and the view that it is more or less your own fault if you dont make it is something I find to be a pretty nasty view of humanity. The list can go on." I am a firm believer that you CAN make it if you try hard enough. What exactly is wrong with this?

4. And I have a feeling that this is going to cause some problems....but I am curious.

"Of course the foreign policy is mightily important as well, the US arrogance when it comes to foreign policy is annoying especially since they have no real reason for being arrogant except for the fact that they have hte biggest stick"

Historicially, power on the planet earth has flowed from the "barrel of the gun". It's not pretty, it's not fair, but it is true. It is also true that the US is indeed the most powerful country on this planet. It is also true that it is also the most powerful in many NON MILITARY areas. I'm curious which country DOES have the right to be arrogant, proud, happy, whatever you want to call it?

 

joacqin,

Quit it man, I already feel bad enough about how rude I have been on occasion, especially to you, and now you are making me feel even worse about it.

All,

I know this thread is really intended for those outside of the US, but I would like to comment.

Believe it or not, and I know as obstinate as I seem this may be difficult, many of you have actually swayed my opinion. The problem is, when I agree with you I usually don't say anything. Some of the views here have actually resulted in discussions with my friends that become somewhat heated.

I think the one thing that I dislike most about a lot of my fellow Americans is our attitude of "screw the world, we know best, we are the biggest and strongest, and too bad if you don't like what we do". In other words, they think "Why should we care what they think?" I hope that as the world continues to shrink Americans will begin to think in global terms, and be more understanding of how other nations feel. I know that this goes against some of what I have said on the war in Iraq, but hey, it is a process. Also, this does not mean that we will or should bow down on every issue, but at least we can consider and do a better job of explaining why we are making certain choices.

That said, LLandon, what the hell are you trying to do? Keep that up and they will be using you as the example of the bad American!

 

Thanks everyone for the input so far.

I don't want to seem pushy, but I'd like to make a request or two. It is good to know generally what you dislike but it would also be helpful if you had any specific examples that stick out. For example, foreign policy is a general complaint but perhaps there are one or two ( or three or four whatever) issues that really stand out?

Oh, and it may've seemed addressed solely to non-US citizens and if so I appologize, of course I'm interested in what anyone has to say.

Also, I'm not a moderator or anything. But, if possible, since this was in hopes of gathering information, I'd like to reitterate a request not to debate too much since it might take away from the information gathering aspect and just be a back and forth. I'm hoping to put together some thoughts in the future based on some things I'm reading but will either hold off for a week or so or start an entirely new thread, suggestions?

 

I applaud you for conducting this thread. I too want to understand this issue as best I can, as I'm sure many Americans do who don't quite understand where all of the bad sentiment comes from. I recognize it and am very aware, but more often than not I'm just confused about the actions of certain countries (I know...welcome to International Politics). In fact, the main reason I've been so interested in the forums as of late is so I can learn from everyone here. Having voices from so many places around the world and hearing their views is a warm welcome.

My answer to this question: I love my country and what we were founded on, as I think most Americans truly stand for what we say we do. However, I am consistantly frustrated with our government. I hate how we preach democracy but rarely practice it. I hate how our political leaders are never, IMO, the best person for the job.

American politics today is such that the most learned, respected and qualified citizens, the ones who SHOULD lead us, won't go near public office with a 10-foot pole because of the effect it would have on their families. Those who can't be bought by one interest group or another are quickly crucified politically and swept under the rug, while the guy who doesn't mind "crossing the line", and has done so so often he can't even see the line anymore, gets elected on the money that will buy 'favors' later.

We claim to be so great, but our leaders are just as corrupt as any so-called 'terrorist state'. Case in point: am I to believe it's merely a coincidence that Haliburton was awarded the biggest Iraqi reconstruction contract and Dick Cheney used to be it's CEO? Could you be any more obvious? I honestly love my country, even though I consider myself a raging cynic. But it gets harder and harder to believe in it with each passing election.

[ April 04, 2003, 01:53: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]

 

Well... I dislike the US because of their propaganda system. All the wars they've fought over the years have mostly been moves on the giant chessboard called Earth. They claim these wars were to liberate the cultures and peoples of the nations they've 'helped' (aka invaded).

Nicaragua was one war that they should not have fought the way they did. They basically 'hired' guerillas to kill anyone who thought of contesting.
Vietnam was a dumbass mistake (although that is probably the most uncontroversial war of all).
Chili and Pinochet was idiotic.
Saddam Hussein was ridiculous, although at the time he was regarded as a necessary risk.
Panama was a tragedy.
I could go on but I want to give one example in detail...
East Timor was trying to separate itself from the rest of Indonesia and the only way it could do that was through violence. Indonesia is an Islamic state, so the Christian East Timorians were being prosecuted (much like the Kurds, but less severe). When they retaliated, Indonesia asked the US for help. At first the US said: "we support you, but we're not sending any weapons over". The US also said not to use the arms the Indonesians already had from the US (although they did anyway since 90% of their arms were US imported). The US later sent more arms over to help Indonesia commit genocide against East Timor. After the war, the US said they didn't condone the Indonesian's acts against East Timor, but apparently they did so in secrete because no one ever heard the US say anything about Indonesia... ever. The one time any press got out on the war, it was a British freelance reporter filming the atrocities.

Anyway, I dislike the US administration... never the people. The US population isn't responsible for war, the government is (even if the war is under popular vote the people never get both sides of the story or even the whole of one side).

[ April 04, 2003, 02:11: Message edited by: Mystra's Chosen ]

 

LOL....

I hope I'm not in the running for an example of a bad American. My last post was kind of rushed since I was at work, and had a customer waiting for me.

I mainly am interested in a little more detailed information. I am NOT trying to start any kind of fight or push anyone's buttons.

 

[EDIT]

that was wierd... my post showed up 2 times.

 

Wow check it out Darkwolf and I agree!

For me one of the biggest promblems I see in the US is partisan politics.It doesn't seem to matter anymore if its good for the country if it is a republican idea the democrats vote against it and vice versa.What ever happened to doing things because they would help the people.

 

Posted by Llandon: 1. How has the US "re-introduced" relegion into politics?

Well, this might not be what Joacqin meant, but after 9/11 throughout the "War against Terrorism" have you heard Bush talk? He couldn't finish a single sentence without mentioning "God bless America" or something of the sort. That really antagonized me, as it made it look like a Christian/Islam war, which is not a picture one should paint, because that's exactly what fits the muslim extremist image, as far as I know.

It's not so much that religion plays an active role in politics, but more that politics uses religion to put more weight in their words. But then again, Joacqin might be talking about something else.

 

Every nation has it good and bad points, the only reason people pick on America is because it has a more prominent role in the world.

 

The electoral system has a lot to answer for in the US. Everyone is directly elected from the local sheriff to the president. From this follows two things:

Firstly, with politics so personalised politicians are more worried about where the next campaign buck will come from than proper policy making. To take someone down you don't need to look to improve on their policies, you just dig up some dirt and that's it.

Secondly, special interest groups buy their way to policy. They contribute, they get their way in the voting. This aspect is downright corrupt.

Finally I also dislike the way religion is being given such a high prominence in US politics. Religion should not be the basis for policy making. Take a step back and look at the Arab world. Not a good way make policy in any area, least of all foreign policy.

Only other point that spring to mind: Gun control. Nuff said on that one.

 

Gun control, the Movie Academy thinger and Bush.

AND...

*drum roll*

Britney.


Some guy said, that she was hot.

That guy is a crappy idiot.(Sorry.)