1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Why I, Apparently, Hate America

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Death Rabbit, May 13, 2004.

  1. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    6,103
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    241
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG] This was going into the "How Should the US Respond" thread, but before I knew it I'd gone and written a doozy. I apolagize for the length, but it's from the heart.

    [Edit - After a quick spellcheck & proofing, and after the wonderful words of encouragement I've received publicly and privately for this piece, I've submitted this piece to both NPR and the New York Times Op-Ed Column. Thanks again, everyone - and if I get a bite you'll be the first to know.

    Below I've pasted the edited version that I sent off to them. Thanks again everyone...it means alot. - DR]


    Dear New York Times,

    At the behest of some friends of mine, I'm sending you something I wrote regarding the murder of Nicholas Berg and the Iraq war. They felt it needed a bigger voice. Thanks.

    Andy Rich
    Houston, TX

    -------

    Why I, Apparently, Hate America


    I just finished watching the Nicholas Berg beheading video. I knew it would disturb me, but I felt compelled to see it nonetheless. I consider myself a pretty non-squeamish 24-year old man, but that is easily the most horrible thing I've ever seen. It was 10 minutes ago, and my hands are still shaking.

    As I read the news headlines, postings on internet blogs, calls for blood, and comments from war supporters claiming that the "liberal media and CBS" are responsible for this man's death, because they showed the Abu Graib pictures on TV, I feel it necessary to explain my position on the war, if for no other reason than to get it down on paper (so to speak) for my own benefit.

    I do now and have always supported the war on terrorism. I think these sick bastards should be hunted down and exterminated like the vermin they are. And it is precisely for this reason that I think that waging war on Iraq was a grave mistake.

    My country's immediate response to 9/11 was correct. Attacking Afghanistan, where Al Qaeda was based, was the right thing to do. The first 5 months of Operation Enduring Freedom were done very well, a compliment to our fine military. The Taliban regime was toppled, and Al Qaeda was on the run. I strongly believe that had we stayed in Afghanistan, put more troops on the ground there, and kept our focus on Al Qaeda and their operatives, we could have severely weakened Al Qaeda, if not stomped them out altogether. Instead, 5 months after we invaded, our forces were pulled out of Afghanistan to make preparations to invade Iraq - a nation that, despite misleading statements by my president and members of his cabinet, had NOTHING to do with 9/11 or Al Qaeda.

    I initially supported going to war with Iraq. I thought, despite my better judgement and every instinct in me, that if my government is doing something as drastic and careless as relenting on the hunt for Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, in order to attack Iraq with evidence of an immediate threat that was vague at best, then they must know something we don't. They must have intelligence SO GOOD that they can't reveal it to the public for security or tactical reasons. So I gave my government the benefit of the doubt, and supported the war in Iraq as well, hoping against hope that WMD would be found and my country's good word being tested would pass with flying colors. I was wrong.

    Don't get me wrong here - Saddam Hussein is an evil bastard who needed to be dealt with. I admit I celebrated when his 2 sons were killed. I was glad when his regime was toppled relatively painlessly. I believe the world is better off without men like him running an entire country.

    But despite this, and despite the fact that I strongly believe that Iraq needed to be dealt with EVENTUALLY, Iraq was NOT a threat to the United States. It may have been at one point, but it wasn't in the months before we invaded. Anyone who believes otherwise is deluding themselves.

    Look at the facts: We crippled Saddam's army in Gulf War I and sanctions prevented him from rebuilding it. This time around, we defeated what was left of that entire military in 2 weeks, easily the fastest and most decisive military victory in modern history. We ruled the skies, as they had little or no Air Force. We entered Iraq by sea completely unchallenged, as they had no navy. And thanks to sanctions, inspections, and intelligence received from the first gulf war, if anyone believes the Pentagon didn't know full well the weapons capability and production manufacturing infrastructure Iraq had at its disposal, they are again deluding themselves. The "we had to go in because they were being secretive" excuse is ludicrous because our government knew full well that Iraq never had any WMD. But they knew that Saddam's well-known secretiveness would create enough doubt that WMD would seem possible, even likely.

    If you honestly think the Pentagon was not fully aware of Iraq's WMD capability, you give far too little credit to our intelligence services. If you, like 60% of America, still believe that Saddam Hussein had ANYTHING to do with 9/11, even after Bush admitted, and I quote, "We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th," you pay far too much heed to the myth of the liberal media bias.

    Now look at what insisting on fighting a bogus war in Iraq has accomplished. Look beyond the hundreds of billions of dollars paid for by a massive budget deficit and the 700+ American soldiers who died needlessly (if you can). We promised WMD, and not only did we not deliver, but also our president actually has the gall to say, "What's the difference?" when asked how he got it so wrong. As a result, no country will ever believe us again. It should go without saying how dangerous this is, because some day, there really WILL be an immanent threat on our nation. Some day, the world will have nothing to go on but our word alone. And they'll turn their backs on us. And we will have deserved it.

    People still seem not to understand that this war is like nothing we've ever faced before, as if comparing this war to past conflicts in Europe is a fair comparison. Times have changed. America has changed. And the enemy and "stage" has most certainly changed. Conservatives and most war supporters think that despite the shame and brutality of events like the Abu Graib prison scandal, the Arab world will eventually learn to accept and respect us. War supporters will say, "Oh, whatever. Previous wars had far, far worse atrocities - Dresden, anyone? - and both sides found ways to get on with their lives afterward." Comments like this show a fundamental naivete for what kind of people we're dealing with here.

    Islamic cultures, particularly those in this region, take shame and dishonor very, very seriously. Revenge for a shaming is considered one of the greatest things one can do in the eyes of Allah. It is not uncommon for family members to carry out revenge for grievances committed even generations ago. Holding grudges is pretty standard. Today's child who witnesses his father strip-searched in front of his mother, incredibly insulting to most Arabs, will be tomorrow's enthusiastic Al Qaeda recruit, just itching for his chance to restore his family's honor. It happens every day. And the manner of our occupation gives them a single target, a single entity to blame for that shame: America.

    We've also convinced the world that we go wherever we want, do whatever we want, and don't care about the consequences because hey - we're America, the worlds last great superpower...who's going to stop us? Like it or not, that's the world's view of America right now. Just the kind of target the "freedom fighters" believe they will be honored for in heaven with 72 virgins by giving their lives to the cause of defeating. Which brings to my next point...

    The worst consequence of all - invading Iraq has allowed Al Qaeda to regroup and regain their strength. As has the Taliban, who is now once again in control of about 2/3 of Afghanistan. Before the war, Al Qaeda was seen as a fringe, loony element in Arab society. Few took them seriously. Osama's own propaganda prophesized that the Great Satan America would attack and occupy, unprovoked, an oil-rich Muslim country. And the Arab world laughed. Then the hubris of Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Perle cooked up this great idea to establish Arab Democracy by force...and essentially made Osama right. And the Arab world stopped laughing. We've made Osama bin Laden a hero because we've made him right about us.

    There were never any terrorist elements in Iraq, at least none having anything to do with Al Qaeda. But there sure are now, aren't there? It floors me that people still believe that Saddam was in cahoots with Osama, despite the well-known fact that Osama hated Saddam almost as badly as he hated us. To him, Saddam was a "fake Muslim," squandering his power and living like a decadent westerner. His lifestyle and government was an affront to Islam, in Osama's view, because all Arab leaders should lead their people instep with radical Islam. The Saddam/Osama connection is about as likely as a Hillary Clinton/Sean Hannity connection. Yet people continue to believe it.

    As a result of all of this, for the first time in my life, I'm scared to be an American in this world. I am now a target of terrorism just because of my country. The men who killed Nick Berg knew he wasn't a soldier, or a diplomat, or a George Bush. He was just a regular guy like me. What scares me is that they didn't care. He was an American, and that was good enough for them.

    I'm proud of what my nation stands for, but I'm ashamed of what's become of it. In a nation that allegedly believes in free speech, I can't be critical of my president without being accused of giving aid and comfort to the enemy. I can't point out the obvious disaster of this war without having my patriotism questioned. Somehow I'm not an American unless I'm waving a flag and supporting what I believe to be one of the most disastrous policies our nation has ever willingly executed.

    I know my country can be a force for good in this world, but I firmly believe that our current leadership is failing our nation and squandering the good will we've EARNED with the blood of our soldiers from WWI on up. I disapprove, as all Americans have a right to. I think....I KNOW, America is better than this. I demand higher standards of my leaders, and demand they be replaced, because they're failing us.

    Despite all this, according to those on the right, I hate America. I drank the "Kerry Kool-Aid."

    It's now been 84 minutes since I started writing this...and yes, my hands are still shaking.

    [ May 14, 2004, 16:47: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]
     
  2. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,815
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    336
    Wow.

    Death Rabbit, I'm not going to comment on the points you raised, because I agree with most (well, all, actually) of them. I'll leave the commenting to those who will disagree with you.

    I just want to say that your post was one of the more eloquent and heartfelt pieces I have seen on these Boards, and I would encourage you to get it out to somewhere where more than a handful of role-playing gamers will see it.

    [ May 13, 2004, 19:46: Message edited by: Splunge ]
     
  3. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,415
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    Well said DR; it would be ludicrous for anyone to say you hate America.

    I only disagree with a few things in there.

    I think you give our intelligence services too much credit if you believe they were fully aware of Iraq's capability. One has only to look at surprises from North Korea and Iran in the nuclear arena to see that.

    There were terrorist elements in Iraq, and Saddam supported terrorists. Just because they may not have been associated with Al Qaeda makes no difference to me. We are not at "war" with Al Qaeda, we are at war with terrorism.

    As to Iraq being a threat to the US: Iraq's military might in its heyday was never a threat to the United States. Its WMD capability could have been, especially if Iraq began supporting terrorists with these weapons instead of with money and protection. Don't forget that although they may not have had completed weapons, they certainly had the technology and know-how, and 9/11 showed us that we were/are vulnerable to a handful of men who wish us harm.

    I agree with you that perhaps the timing of dealing with Iraq was not the best, but I'm not sure when a good time would have been. It had already been 11 years of defiance and sanctions; sanctions that were hurting the regular Iraqi people far more than Saddam and his elite. Sanctions that were apparently causing many deaths including children. How much longer should we have allowed this to continue? I don't believe we could simply lift the sanctions while Saddam was still in breach of the cease-fire agreements, but the sanctions weren't having the desired effect either.

    I agree that this war is a mess and a shame; what war isn't? I just don't know that there was a better solution, given that 11 years of trying other things didn't work.

    Did we need to deal with the problem when we did? Perhaps not, but I don't think that would have been much better for Iraq either; it would probably have been much better for our own image though.
     
  4. Hacken Slash

    Hacken Slash OK... can you see me now?

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    1
    @ DR

    I have always considered you a "Good American", and if anything, afflicted with a love of your Country.
     
  5. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    6,103
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    241
    Gender:
    Male
    @Splunge & Hack...thanks, guys.

    @ BTA
    But the fact is we haven't been at war with either of these countries recently. We haven't spent a decade enforcing no-fly zones with these countries. We had with Iraq. We'd been in the house recently, and we knew where the cookie jar was. And it was empty. There's little room to believe he could've aquired new cookies without us knowing it, especially since his original cookies came from us. (Sorry, I know you and I start argueing whenever I use analogies...I'll stop). ;)
    I'm sorry but this just isn't correct. Saddam was paranoid as hell. If there were terrorist elements in his country, he wouldn't allow it for fear that they would eventually come after HIM. I have never seen any evidence to the contrary.

    If you have a link or something that proves he supported terrorists, I'd love to see it. But I'm certain this is a widely-held and false belief.
    They'd already gone 11 years...a few more would change nothing. We needed to finish one job before starting another. Finish off Al Quaeda, get the world behind us in rooting out all other terrorist organizations, THEN, capitalize on that momentum for justice and take out the brutal dictators of the world, starting with Saddam. I'm sorry, but there are a million other more effective ways this could have been done without making Al Quaeda stronger.
     
  6. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,415
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    These activities have nothing to do with intelligence inside Iraq. There would be no need to send inspectors in there (and have them thwarted) if we already knew what was there.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/murdock/murdock200310210934.asp

    The above link lays out a few things that I have seen in several other places, and have not seen refuted.

    That is an interesting claim, and one that I don't necessarily disagree with, but is certainly not provable, and neither you nor I have the intelligence facilities of our government at our disposal, nor do we have the expertise to make such a determination.
     
  7. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    6,103
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    241
    Gender:
    Male
    Which is precisely why I hold our government to higher standards of fairness and especially accuracy in matters of war. WMD or not, I think we can ALL agree this administration has been neither fair nor accurate.
     
  8. Rallymama Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    4,329
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    11
    DR, Splunge is right. Get that message into a larger forum - maybe NPR?

    If you hate America, then I guess that I do, too. It's sad that the Republican party seems to have forgotten the Christian mantra, "love the sinner, hate the sin." Must we agree blindly with our elected officials or be branded as "bad Americans"?
     
  9. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    Wow DR. I actually refused to click on the link to watch it for fear of having the exact response that you did. Can you imagine anything more terrifying? That guy knew he was going to die - perhaps he did not have specific knowledge as to the exact horrific fashion he was going to die, but he knew he was going to die, and was completely powerless to stop it. He didn't even have a fighting chance. Can anything be worse than that?

    Now on a lighter note:

    I was always curious about this. Would you really want 72 virgins? Wouldn't you want at least a few who were a little bit more experienced? Plus, are these 72 virigns women who lived to old age and never had sex probably because they were so freaking ugly? I definitely don't want them!
     
  10. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    6,117
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    121
    Both DR and BTA are correct when it comes to the Iraq/terrorist thing. Iraq, like *all* arab countries and quite a few non-arab countries tend to support the palestinians to a greater or lesser degree. Some of those countries, especially in the middle east see the use of terrorism as a weapon against the Israelis as viable. However, if that is the criteria we use for labeling countries as supporters of terrorism then we have an even bigger job ahead of us than even the greatest pessismist would have thought. Especially seeing as a large chunk of the western world is trying to work for a pacified Israel and that means dealing with palestinians and the difference between freedom fighter/terrorist/politician/diplomat/soldier/rebel/kidwithabunchofstones may not be that easy to see. Especially as we all have different criterias for the labels we put on people.
     
  11. Lokken Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    3
    [​IMG] Well said DR.

    very touching.
     
  12. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,815
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    @Aldeth:
    Try to think like an Easterner. Virginity there has a ritual meaning. Actually, paradoxically, virginity cults and fertility cults always go together, especially in Eastern civilisations. All those virgins for one happy holy war veteran symbolise youth and freshness. The essence of life (so this is basically why virginity & fertility cults goes together, but, again, this is not the point). They also stand for perfectness - perfectness (and perfect pleasure) untouched by any man. All waiting for the chosen holy warrior to claim. Also, offering virginity has a special ritual meaning. It can be pointed in different directions - for example the lawful husband in Judaism, or Dionisos himself in Greek polytheism (through a random drunken male participant of an orgy), and it strongly implicates possession, owning.

    @DR: I suppose that's the stance Vatican diplomacy took - Saddam's regime was evil, but the war was one big scam. And has also brought lots of evil, while by no means securing peace in the region, as well as produced far-reaching ramifications that remain yet to be seen.

    I do hope peace will come, though. I pray to God the mindless bloodshed finally stops. However, there is no such thing as new order. Things won't magically click if people won't work for it. With clean hands.

    When such great travesty comes from those who fight on the good side, question is raised how the good side is different from the evil one, giving grounds for relativism - good, evil, one and the same, so who cares - just fighting and the difference being on which side you fight and get mutilated and killed while mutilating and killing other people.

    A difference that people will easily notice is that Saddam will be tried. Bush will never be. Neither will Cheney, or Rumsfeld, or whoever else in that group.
     
  13. Jschild Gems: 8/31
    Latest gem: Skydrop


    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fantastic Piece, just one thing of note to add about the terrorists in Iraq. While he funded some terrorist (gave families money) I have to laugh about the big terrorist camp they kept talking about in the leadup to war. The Terrorist camp in northern Iraq in the no-fly zone. The terrorist camp that our buddies the Kurds had in their region and not in any way under Saddam's control. And if we are attacking Iraq because of his relativly weak terrorist support, then Saudi Arabia should be a glowing cinder. They fund more terrorists than virtually anyone else in the world. Doesn't make Saddam a good guy in any book, but if we were seriously worried about the terrorist angle there were dozens of countries that posed a far greater threat than Iraq.
     
  14. Shazamdude Gems: 5/31
    Latest gem: Andar


    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    1
    Amazing post, Death Rabbit. Simply amazing; I consider myself to be a fair hand at putting pen to paper (figuratively speaking, of course) but I couldn't have conveyed my feelings any better then you have in your post. Kudos to the highest degree.

    I just can't bring myself to watch the tape, myself. As Aldeth put it, you have this guy who is facing unavoidable death, and you know that ther is not going to be any dramatic Hollywood style rescue. This man is going to be murdered by vermin that dont' care about any wrongs he may (or may not) have comitted. It's just such an empty, meaningless way to die, and I agree totally that those who did it should be hunted down and brought to justice. It's just sickening how the cycle of meaningless violence continues, until neither side is truly right anymore. I don't know when it all began, but I fear for when (if) it will ever end.
     
  15. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2001
    Messages:
    8,731
    Media:
    88
    Likes Received:
    379
    Gender:
    Male
    DR - I will add my congratulations to a well-written piece. I suggest that you send it to the NY Times. It mirrors my own opinion much more eloquently that I believe I could have written.

    Thanks, by the way, for the heads up. I was torn about viewing the clip, and now I never will.
     
  16. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    6,103
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    241
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks to everyone for the wonderful words of encouragement. After some careful thought (and a little much-appreciated grammatical and spelling nit-picking from Tal), I've submitted this piece to both NPR and the New York TImes editorial page. I'll let you all know if I get a bite.

    I've reposted the edited version above, as it appeared in the email I sent them.

    Again, thanks to you all - it means a lot to me.
     
  17. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes Received:
    0
    @DR - Awesome post. Seriously...couldn't have put it better myself.
     
  18. Iago Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG] What !? Is that the beggining of an editorial career ? Impressive, impressive...
     
  19. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    A very good piece, DR. It is well-written and you argue your points well. Your piece begs a larger question: Who are the real patriots? Those who put their faith in the current leaders and ignore 220 years of American history and tradition? Or those who follow the American time-honored traditions of protest and freedom of expression? Of course, I've "loaded" the question. Right, Grey, Darkwolf, HS? :evil:

    BTW, there was no way in hell I was going to watch that clip, because that is exactly what those murderous bastards wanted in the first place.
     
  20. Late-Night Thinker Gems: 17/31
    Latest gem: Star Diopside


    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    2
    Well done DR. Many of your arguements struck a deep chord...a chord that is unfortunately left still by commercial media. It seems the only truth I can often find about this war comes from regular people, rather than the people paid to tell us about it.

    Sudden change of topic....

    Is your real name Andy Dick? :p

    ...if so, I have been seeing you do some REALLY odd things on TV...nice dress BTW
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.