Why level 13 as a fighter instead of 9?

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Why level 13 as a fighter instead of 9? I think it's level 9. Isn't that when fighters get the extra half attacks? But other than the extra 1/2 attack what is it that makes it worth going up 4 more levels before switching to another class? Mage in this case if it matters.

 

9 vs 13 is the question of one extra weapon proficiency dot at lvl 12 and an extra 1/2 attack at lvl 13.

For mages I would dual at 9. For other classes it may depend on how big a party you want to play with and how much down-time you'd tolerate. Level 9 is only 250k xp, while lvl 13 is 1.25 mln xp. The xp cost is big for those four levels, but actually if you can reasonably expect to reach the xp cap in your game (i.e. if you're playing with a small party of around 3 people, maybe 4), you can still reach lvl 39 for thieves and clerics if you dual at lvl 13.

 

I always play a full party of 6. Well except for that time when Minsc got disintegrated in the Red Wizards' hangout I can't remember who I replaced him with Didn't feel like going back through it all again that night/morning so I hit Q and didn't realize I hadn't saved before that for a good hour or so. So I just went with the quick save and said "Just gonna have to go without them (don't forget Boo) for a change" NO MORE CAKE!

 

Red Wizard's hangout? Where is that?

With a full party, you may reasonably expect to reach 5-6 mln, so then the case for dualling at lvl 9 becomes stronger for the other classes as well.

 

He probably means the shop ran by a wizard of thay you find yourself in during neera's quests, where you have to kill a bunch of them to save some wild mages

 

EE content, then? That would explain why I hadn't heard of it before.

 

Yes it's Neera's quest. EE material henkie. You should get it. I love the "new" stuff. If I had to play without it now I'd be disappointed.

 

Does anybody ever wait until ToB to dual class when your THAC0 is minned out at say level 21 or at least 19/20?

 

Dude, why would you do that? You're gonna suck most of the game, and Full high-level fighter THACO is only a spell away for a fighter/mage-or-cleric anyway. Absolutely not worth it.

 

If I'd do that, I'd go multi-class. I don't see much benefit in dualling that late.

 

I find that a level 9 kensai is perfectly adequate for your combat needs until the end of the game. Obtaining negative Thac0 is very easy, and you can be sporting close to ten attacks per round with the right spells and weapons. Going to level 20 is highly unnecessary.

 

By "close to the end of the game", are we talking Shadows of Amn, or Throne of Bhaal? If the former, I totally agree. However, in the latter, I find that the extra THAC0 can come in handy, even in the first couple chapters dealing with Gromnir and Yaga-Sura.

 

More hitpoints is useful in ToB, lower THAC0 is not really required. For melee, ToB is a slugfest, and those that hit harder and more often win. I've never really noticed lower THAC0 making much of a difference, beyond a certain point.

 

Didn't you just say it yourself "Those that hit harder and more often win"? waiting until level 13 means a 20% increase in your base chance to hit before any modifiers.
Unless you would already hit on everything above a 4, that -4 to THAC0 will count. Even then, it would lower it to hitting on everything above a 1.

 

Yes, but in my experience, hitting something is not often the problem (a few enemies excepted). With "more often", I was referring more to the improved haste and greater whirlwind type of more often, i.e. more attacks per round. I feel that does a lot more to your damage per round than a bit of extra THAC0.

Depending what I dual class to, I'll often go to lvl 13 as well, so I'm not arguing against that. I'm merely arguing that going all the way up to lvl 20 or 23 is just a tiny bit overkill. At that point it would be much better to just go multi-class.

 

Oh, I agree, multiclass is better. The problem is you can't use a kit.
A multiclass Kensai/Mage is awesome, but it is tricky to set up in Shadowkeeper. You can't just change the kit to Kensai and click on the "add class spells" or whatever it was called (been a while). You need to copy the effects from an existing starting Kensai over to the multiclass you are creating.
Either that, or start as a kensai, change to multiclass and add mage levels. I don't recall exactly how I did it, and I'm not sure if the Kensai gave trouble at all now or if it was just limited to the time I tired to make an assassin/cleric. I do recall I had a hard time getting an assassin/cleric set up properly with all the assassin's bonuses and abilities. It kept glitching out on me one way or another.
Sorry, it has been 5 years since I bothered to do either. My memory fails me.

I would wholeheartedly agree that for what I proposed, muticlass is the way to go. I do find the Ranger/Cleric multiclass to be quite powerful for this reason.

 

Starting in BGTutu, it's pretty easy, actually. Create character, save game. Add kit in SK (and set stats to whatever you feel is appropriate so you don't spend an hour rerolling), then save again. Load savegame, export character, then import into new game. Since you have zero xp at the beginning, there's only the initial things to get right, and the game does that for you when you import the character.

 

I know if you do that with say a Kensai in the normal game, you will get the Kai ability, but not some of the starting passive bonuses.
I could get more technical on exactly what happens and how to tell if you wish. You need to copy the abilities from another pure Kensai.